ET Pro 3.1.14 Public Beta Release

Official ET Pro announcements here...

Moderators: Forum moderators, developers

Locked
User avatar
Kendle
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 2:32 am
Location: England
Contact:

Post by Kendle »

bani wrote:et doesnt 'need' increased rof, but then it didnt 'need' xp damage either, or 'need' sticky charge etc. its up to the leagues to decide this.
Ah but it did "need" sticky charge, and it did "need" XP restrictions, as you yourself know and have argued in the past. Without these 2 in particular ET would truly be an unplayable spam-fest.
bani wrote:really, you should be debating the settings with your leagues.
We are, but the debate would be moot if the options didn't exist in the first place.
bani wrote:tbh rof is one of the least controversial things ever.
You're kidding? You can say that with a straight face? :shock:
SickBoy
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 8:29 am

Post by SickBoy »

It's never a good idea to make a weapon (esp the best weapon) even stronger (with increased ROF and no distance falloff) without adjusting other weapons. This makes CO's and soldiers entirely useless now.

I cannot imagine any league will be using these new additions, hell even the people requesting these additions will probably come to the conclusion it was a bad idea.
User avatar
Deus
Posts: 1053
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:24 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Post by Deus »

SickBoy wrote:hell even the people requesting these additions will probably come to the conclusion it was a bad idea.
Maybe, at least they know for sure cause they tested it, not like most of them whin0rz which never ever played a match with these settings.

Our public server runs b_wolfrof from time to time, and after a couple minutes warmuptime everybody got used to it and it works well.
only if someone new joins the server he imediately starts whining: OMFG this is sux 2 fast, v55 /quit

What I see as a problem is that in RtCW the movement was faster too, so in RtCW you had a chance of getting away but in ET it is hard to flee from the bullets
User avatar
bani
Site Admin
Posts: 2780
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2002 3:58 am
Contact:

Post by bani »

Kendle wrote:
bani wrote:et doesnt 'need' increased rof, but then it didnt 'need' xp damage either, or 'need' sticky charge etc. its up to the leagues to decide this.
Ah but it did "need" sticky charge, and it did "need" XP restrictions, as you yourself know and have argued in the past. Without these 2 in particular ET would truly be an unplayable spam-fest.
there were arguments for and against sticky charge (that its not needed, that it hurts defense, that it hurts offense, bla bla) and even then stickcharge was not universally used for a long time (and that may even still be the case).

i argued from the beginning that xp should be removed from competition to eliminate the snowball effect. however many argued that xp limiting was not needed at all.

the conclusions were not universal, hence the choice given in the cvar. some leagues nerf it to varying degrees, some eliminate it totally.

imagine the uproar had it not been an adjustable cvar?
Kendle wrote:
bani wrote:tbh rof is one of the least controversial things ever.
You're kidding? You can say that with a straight face? :shock:
yes. xp damage and xp limits were orders of magnitude more controversial. i got death threats over xp limits 8)
User avatar
gjrc
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:24 am

Post by gjrc »

any news on a final release? i want to update my server!!


:)
Image
User avatar
Kendle
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 2:32 am
Location: England
Contact:

Post by Kendle »

Bani, of course everything has been argued about, both for and against, I'm judging stickycharge and XP restrictions against their success in making ET a playable Stopwatch game, not the objections raised to them prior to their introduction, and comparing that success with the arguments put forward FOR their introduction in the first place.

I can't recall off the top of my head a single thread in which constructive argument FOR increased ROF has been put forward, and there's certainly been no pattern emerging over the course of many discussions that increased ROF will benefit ET (as there were with the XP debates). I wonder why you added it? :wink:
bani wrote:
Kendle wrote:
bani wrote: tbh rof is one of the least controversial things ever.
You're kidding? You can say that with a straight face?
yes. xp damage and xp limits were orders of magnitude more controversial. i got death threats over xp limits
Perhaps I should have placed more emphasis on the word "least" that you used. I don't doubt XP was more controversial from your perspective, but I'd never in a million years use the word "least" to describe the stink ROF has caused.
User avatar
bani
Site Admin
Posts: 2780
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2002 3:58 am
Contact:

Post by bani »

Kendle wrote:I can't recall off the top of my head a single thread in which constructive argument FOR increased ROF has been put forward, and there's certainly been no pattern emerging over the course of many discussions that increased ROF will benefit ET (as there were with the XP debates). I wonder why you added it? :wink:
same reason I added hitsounds? because I thought it could make for a more interesting game?

there was also no discussion about b_xpstopwatch, that was added on the request of STA (and by a single person I might add). most people think it makes stopwatch unfair, but i didn't see a good reason to deny their request for it as an option.

see a pattern emerging? it's called "choice".

the impression i keep getting from your posts is that you want me to restrict choice for leagues to your own personal vision of how a league should be run. certainly i've received that from others -- eg i dont like how league xyz is run, i think you should remove these cvars so it forces the league to run the way i personally want it, etc. etc.

like i said -- discuss it with your league. if rof is so obviously wrong then there's no chance they'll use it right? then what's the big deal about it being a cvar? the league leaves it off and everyone is happy. right? why keep ranting about something they will never use?

there's about as much justification to rant about b_wolfrof as there is to rant about b_xpstopwatch.

makes me wonder why you're so bent out of shape when its so obvious they are never going to use it. :wink:

your comment about ASE leads me to believe you're more concerned about this being used on pubs than in competition. since with leagues there's no question how cvars are set. otherwise, why bring up ASE at all?

this whole thread has been an enormous waste of time, you either get it or you don't. the policy of choice is something firmly established in etpro since 1.0.0 and won't change.

i'm done with this thread, carry on however you like.
User avatar
gjrc
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:24 am

Post by gjrc »

i just wondered if you had any idea when a final release might be available...


maybe my last post got lost in the rof debate?


thanks


:)
Image
squadjot
Posts: 378
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:49 am
Location: Somewhere in Valby
Contact:

Post by squadjot »

bani wrote:same reason I added hitsounds? because I thought it could make for a more interesting game?
omg..i cant beleive u said that.. wasnt it supposed to be a COMPETIONMOD.....its not a popularity contest..u know..

wake up ffs..
User avatar
Kendle
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 2:32 am
Location: England
Contact:

Post by Kendle »

Heh Bani, calm down. :oops:

This whole thread hasn't been a waste of time, it's a discussion about something that concerns a lot of people, like many other discussions, that's all.

Your forum has been a sounding board for many good (and bad) ideas. If it was simply a case of "discuss it with the league admins" your forum would be for bug reports and tech questions only, and it obviously isn't.

As for the ASE reference, you're right, I want to ensure that when I pub (which isn't much these days) I pick servers running an approximation of the version of ET I play in matches. I can do that currently by simply selecting ETPro Stopwatch servers. If ROF is introduced that'll become an issue, either because ROF is used and some public ETPro SW servers aren't using it, or because it's not used and some pubs have it enabled.
User avatar
EagleReloaded
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:15 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Post by EagleReloaded »

Perhaps the ROF debate chunk of this thread should simply be cut off into another of the ROF debate threads and we can get back to actually finding bugs and suggesting improvements. Pretty sure that was the goal in the beginning.

gjrc: We'll find out when one of the crew wants us too, so chill man. 3.1.14 seems stable enough for the moment, and given there are leagues using 3.1.9 with it's complement of bugs, it wins on that front. If you're itching to update your server man then just do it.
Some people play tennis, I erode the human soul.
User avatar
ouroboro
Posts: 662
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:52 pm

Post by ouroboro »

i think high rof blows for many reasons i wont even go into. i was leaning towards the "why in the name of god did you give people this option that will surely drive me to another game if universally implemented?" - but bani's last post was one of his most convincing ever. he's usually a bit short and abrupt, which leads me to feel a bit cold towards him. but that post owned all the critics, lol. it's logic is irrefutable.

i'm starting to think the etpro team should make a board dedicated to feature requests, where each post has a poll attached "for, or against", and whatever ideas are agreed with get added in the order in which they are most strongly supported. that way we can have a truly malleable mod which can be molded by the various leagues - as well as by pub admins - to suit the desires of their "clientelle" best.

it might actually be interesting to see more varied leagues and pub communities develop, rather than the currect situation - where for example CAL and TWL are virtually clones because teams want to play in both. maybe if they split off rather drastically, teams would choose the one that suited their game style best, and we could watch different incarnations of ET develop. there'd be a risk of an unmendable split which could kill the game, but i think more likely a single form of the game would rise to the top and there would remain several variations with smaller communities of die-hards.

i dunno, think about it before calling me crazy...
User avatar
Kendle
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 2:32 am
Location: England
Contact:

Post by Kendle »

The problem with a "request" forum is it'd be no more representative than any other forum. Clan players / Pub all-stars would still vote for / against options that don't affect them. Besides, I'd wager Bani believes such a forum already exists as he speaks to the "League Admins" directly. A forum of this sort would only be viable if it were invite only, but then who would you invite?

As for different Leagues, that's definately a consideration. Clanbase are already saying they'll consider ladders / cups based on different maps / settings for those who want to play the game a particular way. Over on ETNation we've been discussing doing something similar. The only danger is, as you say, fragmenting the community to the detriment of all, but still worthy of consideration.
Slayer
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 10:34 am

Post by Slayer »

im begging for a new althud with a compass in the middle :(
syn.Slay
#syndrom
squadjot
Posts: 378
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:49 am
Location: Somewhere in Valby
Contact:

Post by squadjot »

why not make a board of serious gamers from around the world.. maybe a US board and EU..or just one ..with people who has , not necesarily status, but knowledge.. not about the engine and the technical aspects.. but pure ETgaming and competition..

Kendle would get my vote.. he should be in such a board.

Now ..the interesting question for me is..would ETpro infact aproove that.. cause if they DONT.. then imo this is NOT the right place to develop a comp mod..

ETpro are capable, yes.. very good coders/modding..and theyve done amazing work.. but does that mean.. that.."we" should just accept anything ?
Locked