Spawn timer support

[bani]

DeadBull: i'll put you down as a vote for pro-spawntimer then.

[bani]

I like it the way it is now. The playing field isnt level, thats what makes it a game, because my parents spent a lot of money on a nice computer that lets me shoot with ease, much better then some one with a crappy computer doesnt mean we should put a 43fps limit. Integrating it into the interface is like doing away with the mystery, not fun.

Messing with spawn times im also against, like the move ahead idea. The whole stratedgy to this game has been plant, kill 1 spawn group, and you won it, congrats. Now you have to worry about them comming in waves, bahh, thats not et, thats a death match. On a pub, how fun would it be to go through oasis axis 2nd spawn when they spawn at all different times, there is no safe zone. Instead of having 20secs of safe passage, you cut that in half maybe? not cool.

so is spawn timing ok or not?

or is this a case of, "its ok if i spawncamp with a timer, but its not ok if my opponent does"?

Instead of 4/30 seconds a guy can be immune in a axis spawn, that doubles if they can alter their spawn time by 5 seconds. 8/30 seconds.

um, no?

[-FA-Undertaker]

tbh, the whole idea of spawnpoints is bad IMO. It would have been much better if you had spawnzones, which gives a much wider area to spawn. it's kinda like a variable spawn area. It should be limited to a zone, because if you would be able to select any spot in the map you could spawn right next to the objective.

another way of getting spawnkilled less is to use a spawn selection script. Free tip: for instance, on oasis one could spawn in the ammo room instead of the flag. medics could get ammo instead of asking it from a fops.

[bani]

another way of getting spawnkilled less is to use a spawn selection script. Free tip: for instance, on oasis one could spawn in the ammo room instead of the flag. medics could get ammo instead of asking it from a fops.

some maps are just broken though. for example etmain fueldump. allies really only had a choice of 1 spawn. no spawn selection script in the world can help there.

[SickBoy]

A visual display of a backward counting spawntimer is imho a lot worse to the game then remembering spawntimes. You'll know where the enemy will probably be at a certain time after spawn, you can see on the clock: 16 secs before next spawn, let me just get my nade ready when he passes around this corner in 3 secs. To calculate this in your head is a lot harder then viewing a timer in the right upper corner.

Randomizing spawntime will only help against airstrike spawnraping, but not against anything else. It will just add more lotto to the game.

I'd say leave it as it is. No point in trying to fix something by making it worse. And if you do implement any of this, please make it for competition
cfg's only. This is really bad stuff for pubs.

[bani]

SickBoy - is spawn timing ok or not?

a simple yes or no will do.

how is it bad for pubs when players can already do it?

[Grizbo]

I think the bigger question is "How big is this issue that it needs fixing?". Have clans approached the etpro team with this suggestion request, or leagues or anything? Is it a big deal to the average player, and does it NEED addressing?. While I accept that if there's the option to switch something on and off then *technically* its not something players are forced into, but there's several facts to bear in mind with that dismissal.

1) Most admins enable new things on the basis that new = good. Ok, thats not your *fault*, but its what tends to happen.

2)There's no easy way to filter out servers with settings you don't like. I use ASE, I filter to only have etpro displayed. But that doesn't tell me if its headshot mode, what antil lag its choosing to use, whether new map scripts are in effect, etc etc.

Map scripts are a nice example of where it goes wrong really, for comps they're a good idea, encourage setting times, make the map more competitive, really can't argue with any of that, its all good. But when a monkey sets them ON for a public campaign, its kinda stupid as the point was to make it easier for Allies to win. Great when the teams are going to switch in a minute, not so great for a campaign where the teams stay the same.

Let the players decide what they would like including, I think is the way to go, sorry if that comes across as pushy but I think it'll settle awkward buggers like me if it comes out to be clearly representative of what the community wants

*for the record, I've never used a spawn timer, and I don't always remember to take the spawn time of the enemy in game either (although luckily someone in the team generally will remember to)*

[bani]

Grizbo, you already voted for ingame spawntimer though!

[KingJackaL]

It IS an issue on pubs, as sickboy alluded.

I'm for the spawntimer as long as there's an option to turn it off - and I'll have it off in public mode on my servers.

Pubs are different to clan matches in more than just skill. The players are random (often shuffled up a few times even if there weren't completely random to start), they don't know each other, they don't use voice comms, they don't use spawn timers, they don't use spawn scripts, they don't use anything much. Sure, they COULD - but in all seriousness, 90%+ of them DON'T. I have a feeling that a spawn-timing script would just make spawn camps worse (IMO, they're not an issue in clan games - pick the right maps and settings, and you'll never see one in a clan match, but they ARE still a big issue on pubs where people prefer the default maps and settings because they're used to them) and subtly change the atmosphere on the server.

I mean, I'm an ultra-competitive clanner who runs a league, but even I can understand that most people playing on pubs don't really care too much about how even the playing field is, and probably care a fair bit more about the casual atmosphere of the server so they can just have some fun .

[Thanatoaster]

Summary: SpawnTimerVote++

I see nothing wrong with putting a spawntimer into etpro, as long as it functions essentially the way heron does. I'd like to see an option (server-side cvar?) to control how it displays - fireteam/team for use in league configs, echo for use on pubs to avoid spammers. Otherwise, I wouldn't change much of anything from the way things like heron work. One function starts the timer, another turns its display on/off, and maybe a client-side cvar controls the time between alerts.

That being said, I don't see much wrong with the current situation. We used heron briefly in OUF, but it didn't really make that much of a difference. We had already gotten used to simply calling "spawn in 10", so people were still doing it regardless of whether or not the timer was running. I don't think this is an absolutely essential feature that has to be turned out and submited to leagues right away, but if there's enough of a push for it, I wouldn't really mind.

[bani]

KingJackaL, whats the difference between a player using heron or a timer script vs a player using eg builtin timer?

I dont see why it would be any more a problem on pubs than it already is. Those who would use it will use it. Those who wouldnt use heron etc wont use it. It doesnt provide them with anything they cant already get.

And if you "ban" it, theyll just use a hacked heron which doesnt set the cvar. You wont prevent anything on pubs. Or league matches for that matter! Its silly for a league to "ban" spawntimers as they arent really preventing anything.

The issue is: people can and do use external spawntimers -- heron and others. Since there's nothing anyone can do to stop the use of them (other than allowing players to change their spawntimes, which apparently nobody wants to allow), why not integrate it into etpro.

[dragon]

Mmm, interesting...Time for my pov now.

ANY seriously Competitive Clan will run a spawntimer. Whether it's Heron, or several others (I've played with one that uses voice, so there's no record on a demo)

Soooo, as we can't prevent anyone from doing this (And to be honest, it's no different to using an electronic timer on your desk/monitor) I don't see a problem with having this as a admin option. Perhaps like this:

b_spawndisplay x

0=No SpawnTimer displayed
1=Defending Teams Spawn Time Displayed
2=Both Teams Spawn Time Displayed

As we all know, maps are generally biased towards defence, so a value of 1 makes life that much easier for the attacking team. Of course, another option could be included to display the Attacking team only, but why bother?

So Yes, I support this idea. (For something Radical, there could always be an option like b_spawnadvance, which would enable the attacking team if they use it, to bring their spawn time forward 15 seconds, but only once per round)

(BTW, Our Ladder permits the use of Spawntimers, for the simple fact that we CAN'T police it effectively)


Oh, KingJackaL, ICQ me maen, we should chat

[KingJackaL]

KingJackaL, whats the difference between a player using heron or a timer script vs a player using eg builtin timer?

none

I dont see why it would be any more a problem on pubs than it already is. Those who would use it will use it. Those who wouldnt use heron etc wont use it. It doesnt provide them with anything they cant already get.

And if you "ban" it, theyll just use a hacked heron which doesnt set the cvar. You wont prevent anything on pubs. Or league matches for that matter! Its silly for a league to "ban" spawntimers as they arent really preventing anything.

I dunno whose pubs you're refering to, but in my experience it ISN'T a problem on any of my pubs. Only on psuedo pubs where half the players are clanners . The long-campaign servers, the no-XP-reset servers (OK, so they're not etpro, but that aside) etc DON'T have problems with spawn timers, because nobody uses them. No, seriously - NOBODY uses them!

And no, I don't ban Heron from use on those pubs - if people want to use it, that's fine. But most players don't use it, don't care about it, and would probably pronounce the server 'gay' or 'lame' upon seeing it in their HUD. They're pubbers, they don't play in a clan, they don't know about spawn timers, and (IMHO) they don't want to. Often they just want to have a beer and shoot at some other people before climbing into bed in the evening. >_>

/me prods Dragon

[Thanatoaster]

0=No SpawnTimer displayed
1=Defending Teams Spawn Time Displayed
2=Both Teams Spawn Time Displayed

Are you talking about allowing players on each team to use the timer? Or just outright displaying the other team's spawn time on the screen? Outright display I'd have a real issue with, but running it as just a local timer is another matter entirely.

[Digm]

The issue is: people can and do use external spawntimers -- heron and others. Since there's nothing anyone can do to stop the use of them (other than allowing players to change their spawntimes, which apparently nobody wants to allow), why not integrate it into etpro.

Just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you should.


If you implement it for people on pubs, you're going to have countless people spamming "enemy spawn in x seconds" - and more often than not it'll be the wrong spawn time to begin with because they can't figure out how to use it.

If you implement it for people in leagues, you're just giving them something they already use anyway - which is a waste of time. Plus, most teams I know use a simple vsay_team script instead of Heron. "Spawn at 22/52" is MUCH more effective (and less annoying) than "Enemy spawn in 10 seconds!".

And if you're talking about having a display showing the enemy's spawn time regardless - that's the *worst* option. Half the challenge is having someone astute watching the spawn at the right time to get the time. Even though getting the other team's spawn is pretty easy, it still requires SOME effort.


Going back to implementing +dropweapon would be time better spent imo.