gotenks wrote:all you have to remember, is arty falls in a pattern... learn the pattern and you can make it through, relatively unscaved
Hmm learn to read?
Artillery is fired - 0 seconds
First hit lands - 5 seconds
Second hit lands, the first "major" hit - 11 seconds
Constant barrage of hits (all major hits) 12 - 18 seconds
Arti stops - 18 seconds
You obviously only play publics. Otherwise you'd know during a clan war simply "avoiding it" isn't an option, that's before you take into consideration that the arti is practically continuous.
As for limiting classes, that also restricts ammo distribution as well as air canisters.
I suppose you where against removing xp also? I've yet to see any argument against the option to remove arti, other than "omg change die, it's a part of the game!".
higher skilled clans then low skill will beat you not cause of spam m8.
@nellie, simply wait before you enter the depot gate. Either wait a couple of seconds or die and wait for respawn even longer.
c'est moi, g-man ^^
irc: #clan.impera @quakenet Gamersdatabase
gotenks wrote:all you have to remember, is arty falls in a pattern... learn the pattern and you can make it through, relatively unscaved
Hmm learn to read?
so inother words i can't read because i can make it through 2 peoples arty, and you can read because you just run blindly into it???
imho i still haven't seen a GOOD argument for this, I'm under the assumption y ou believe that a 3rd rate team could own a top ranked team using arty to spam tight areas... this DOESN'T work... in my old clan we tried this (most of the competitive gamers left, I ended up filling in) and we got obliterated (this was before etpro mapscripts and we were spamming the ramp
I'm sure that removing artillery (and grenades) would ruin the strategical aspect of the game, and make it more boring especialy for spectators. Is setting up a crossfire around a chokepoint much more exciting than calling artillery onto it? I don't think that watching a team of axis medics crouching/proning over a carpet of medipacks and keeping their crosshairs where the allied heads will appear is very funny. On the other hand, a well timed artillery (or grenade spam) will probably split the attacking wave, or force the allies to change path, and put to show the reaction speed of their brains...
Who mentioned grenades? The contrary, if implemented it'd probably lead to an increase in nade spam, be that good or bad (depends how you see it). One of the proposals I made was the possibility to increase the recharge time, though ofc it'd all need testing. This would keep the fop class just as strong. But yes, the majority of people find a crossfire more interesting than arti spam.
As said, I've yet to see any argument against the option to remove besides the same rhetoric that's used everytime someone proposes something. (other than shite shrub mode features aka "killing spree sounds", nuff said...)
@maarten144 - maybe you should look at your defensive tacs if they're that crap? And yes a low skill clan won't beat a high skill due to spam alone, it's all retrospective. Shows a weak argument when you've gotta go to extremes...
Restricting xp "will ruin the game" or "it will take away the fun"
Removing xp "will ruin the game" or "it will take away the fun"
Restricting mines "will ruin the game" or "it will take away the fun"
Changing the recharge bar time "will ruin the game" or "it will take away the fun"
See my point? As an argument it's a non-entity...
(think you may need to look up "retrospective" in the dictionary)
i can't see how it'll RUIN the game, but I also can't see how it'll improve the game, i think it'll definately change the game, but change just for change sake is not allways good... i really am open to hear a valid argument for removing it... i want to be convinced...
Well I dont think it will ruin the game either, and I dont need to look up retrospective up in the dictionary until you learn to speak proper dutch. I agree with gotenks, havent seen a real good argument for chaning it, and imo it will change the game for the worse.
c'est moi, g-man ^^
irc: #clan.impera @quakenet Gamersdatabase
Mortaring is an offensive weapon. Which speeds up map times considerably. What once were full holds, are now maps that are over in 7 minutes, ie oasis. Mortar is useful on goldrush. Mortar is a complex weapon, and there is a lot of prediction, mindgames and team coordination involved to using it effectively, it like the artillery is a "space time player probability density" weapon, for like of a better word/phrase.
Any weapon can be spam, smg can be used as spam, nades, whatever. If you think artillery is just used as spam, you really have no clue about it at its higher levels. There is a lot to predicting ten seconds ahead of time. It takes effort and skill to do it. Airstrikes on the other hand, I think are much less skillfull. Predicting 5 secs ahead of time, and hiding the smoke, just doesnt stack up to an artillery timed to game events, and I am not simply talking spawn time. Besides blowing people up, one can also use artillery to force a team to do what you want, when you want, when I used to artillery, its was more like chess than anything else. Very entertaining.
Mortar and artillery are two of the most tactical weapons in ET. Thats really what ET is about. The smg battles themselves, are kinda boring and low skilled affairs relative to other games such as quake or unreal etc.
Mortar use really forces the other team to ADAPT, they have to switch to another defensive set, standard defenses wont work per se usually, they have to be modified and really made less effective. This is balanced by the fact the attacking team only has 5 guys, not 6.
I really think this game has a certain percentage of deluded, repacking medics, who think thier aim is a lot better than it is. The medic regen, and initial health often gives them basically a 2 shot advantage vs a non medic in battle, and usually worse than that, since often the non medic guy they are fighting has already been weakened by a shot or two. This leads to them thinking this smg fighting is really wonderful, and should be made the basis of the ET game. A lot of these same guys wouldnt last long in a true aiming type game like quake or unreal.
Not saying anyone in particular holds this view, but I bet a lot do. Keep the 140 medic health vs 120 non medic, keep the regen, the repack, and the rape of weakened non medic enemies>I am l33t aimer!, but do not nerf other classes anymore imo.
ET is an awesome tactical game, thats its strong point.
Also, all this AS is more pleasing than artillery for audiences is an interesting statement. Where pray tell is ANY proof of that? Also, what audience are you going to attract to ET???? Your going to attract the people who already play it and watch it. The proposition that more AS and less artillery in a game will make more people watch the game is simply preposterous. This whole audience thing is a complete red herring.
In terms of putting in an option though, heck, put in any option you would want actually.
Then the vaunted smg battles would actually be more fair, the person who got the most shots landed would usually actually omg WIN, medics would actually be more of a "medic" instead of the most grossly overpowered class in ET. SMG battles would actually be skill based between non medic and medics. Talk about something that would really kick the crutch out of all these supposed high skill leet aimers running about : P
Ah yeah, and to handle the myth about medics needing that extra health since they are "revivers" and not because they are grossly overhealthed shooters, everytime a medic successfully revives someone give him 20 or 40 more health. That would do more than anything in ET to make it more skill based in outcome. Would truly reward reviving as well. This will never happen, the shock of an actual level smg playing field to all these deluded medics would drive I would guess 50 percent of them out of the game, they need thier crutch.
But I find it laughable you think arti is skilled. Mortar, yes definatly - and as I said I agree that's an offensivly biased weapon on all but one comp map.
But "predicting" 10 seconds ahead isn't a skill, heck we've even got the etpro spawntimer now there's nothing to it!
This thread has made me look at it from a new light though, the 3v3 argument is far stronger than anything I can come up with. This would be fantastic for that style gameplay. And a very worthy cvar to code all things considering.
Nellie- wrote:
But "predicting" 10 seconds ahead isn't a skill, heck we've even got the etpro spawntimer now there's nothing to it!
I like that, it forces you to be more careful, just dont walk through it. I dunno bout you but i dont get many arty deaths like 2 per game in 6on6. So there aint even a need to make such fuzz. Perhaps learn to avoid them.
c'est moi, g-man ^^
irc: #clan.impera @quakenet Gamersdatabase
an argument could be made that everything in the game is unskilled to some degree. an argument could also be made that all the game-altering changes since etmain 2.55 are because people couldn't handle the game as it was.
imo, if you remove arty, you can't convince any sane person that mines should stay. not 10, not 7, not 5, not any. utterly unskilled. same for airstrikes. wow, you know there's a guy on the other side of that wall, so you drop a can. mad skillz yo!
either leave it all in or rip it all out by the roots. but you can't pick and choose which spam items are "skilled" and which are not. none of them require any significant skill. but that's not enough to remove them. you need to demonstrate how they are negatively impacting the game. otherwise you are just whining about something you don't like, and that's just not a good enough reason to alter the game.
the game and (most) maps were designed with (usually) multiple routes to take. that is the point of arty. to pinch off the enemys options. and a wise team uses spam to herd the enemy like cattle right where they want them. it sounds to me like the people who want it gone are just narrow minded players who only value smg skills (which is quite funny to begin with since ET is not even close to real aiming games like quake). they should learn from people like Herf who actually master the art of timing and control of artillery. it's not just mindless spam. it's about control.
don't get me wrong - every time i die to spam i wish for an smg-only version of ET. but when i calm down i realize the game would be far too shallow without all it's frustrations. it's already watered down immensely from it's beginnings. and at this point, the RTCW LT is more spammy than the ET FOP. remember when RTCW players shunned ET because it was too spammy? heh.
just remove all non-hitscan weapons and get it over with. make no mistake, that *IS* the ultimate goal of these people.
anyway, even with ALL that said, i agree the option can't hurt. because this is a topic for leauges. imo there should be options to minutely tune every aspect of the game, so we can see what game evolves from it. if you can imagine it, it should be added as an option. lotta work for bani though.
