Fueldump changes for tournament stopwatch

Post by **bani** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 4:32 pm

Vote on proposed changes to fueldump for tournament stopwatch.

As it is, fueldump is far too defense biased for decent tournament stopwatch games.

<blink>DO NOT VOTE UNLESS YOU PLAY TOURNAMENT STOPWATCH!!</blink>

RedNeck · Post by **RedNeck** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:52 pm

plz vote no. this affects TWL too much witch Zer0 is in. it will kill it for a lot of ppl.

{Zer0}Dr.J · Post by **{Zer0}Dr.J** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:04 pm

Please do not change anything...don't mess w/ perfection!!!

spoon · Post by **spoon** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:29 pm

Except it's not perfect.

The map was designed for use in pub play with a loooong timelimit and the assumption that most players would have built up high levels of XP over preceeding rounds.

A quick offense with zero'd out XP is handicapped by the relatively far distance they have to run during the second phase... it gives the defense plenty of time to entrench in the fuel dump and they can easily not only swat down wave after wave of attackers, but also have time to resupply health and ammo.

In SW play, this isn't good. The map needs to favor the offense more than the defense, or else you end up full holds and the match is prolonged as the teams have to resolve the tied round.

I agree that it doesn't make much sense for campaign matches (cause they have the full time limit, the map is played only once, and XP is factor), but NOT making this change for SW is going to cause SW matches to become tedious affairs to play and absolutely boring matches to listen to on shoutcasts.

{Zer0}Eclipse · Post by **{Zer0}Eclipse** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:41 pm

Exactly what Red said. This would really hurt TWL settings in Fuel Dump. Having that spawn at the command post would blow! The allies would be able to run over the axis and would not let them build a defense at all.

I strongly disagree with having the allies spawn at the CP. For TWL and CAL matches this would make the allied team totally lopsided.

A big NO

Samurai · Post by **Samurai** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:45 pm

again covert op is use less due to the fact all the engineer has to due is get past tunnels build cp and and wow whole team can spawn there and wow axis are really screwed there and wow lets just hop over the fuel dump and blow it :/ that would be a lame change

spoon · Post by **spoon** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:58 pm

Samurai wrote:again covert op is use less due to the fact all the engineer has to due is get past tunnels build cp and and wow whole team can spawn there and wow axis are really screwed there and wow lets just hop over the fuel dump and blow it :/ that would be a lame change

No, you'd still need the tank or a covert in a uni to get access to the depot. At least in TWL... you can only do 2 man stacks, and the rules make it quite clear that if you get blown over obstacles (even accidentally) and fail to kill yourself, it's considered an exploit (in other words, no nade jumping).

And on top of that, you'll still get a warning when:

1) the command post is built
2) the depot defenses are blown
3) dynamite is planted at the depot

Yes, it makes defense a lot harder than it used to be.

So get tougher or get shredded.

bluejacket · Post by **bluejacket** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 9:07 pm

I voted for #2, but #1 would be fine, too. Obviously they would need to be playtested.

For the guys saying it would make offense able to runover the defense, that's the point. It is useless to have maps where full holds are easy when you're playing stopwatch. The whole point is to figure out which team can set a time. If defense is too easy, no times get set.

gotenks · Post by **gotenks** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:11 pm

(haven't played in a couple weeks since hd crash, but where is garage spawn?). I've played this map alot, and i love playing it as allies, the main point i see getting choked at is when the tank has breached both enterances(unless you're on a team of non-teamworking rambos).

{Zer0}Eclipse · Post by **{Zer0}Eclipse** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:44 pm

gotenks wrote:but where is garage spawn

At the Allied command post, by the MG Tower or MG nest when the tank comes rolling out of the cave.

bluejacket wrote:It is useless to have maps where full holds are easy when you're playing stopwatch. The whole point is to figure out which team can set a time. If defense is too easy, no times get set.

That is very true.

Post by **bani** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:22 am

please dont vote unless you play in league competition.

Post by **bani** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:23 am

{Zer0}Eclipse wrote:Exactly what Red said. This would really hurt TWL settings in Fuel Dump. Having that spawn at the command post would blow! The allies would be able to run over the axis and would not let them build a defense at all.

I strongly disagree with having the allies spawn at the CP. For TWL and CAL matches this would make the allied team totally lopsided.

A big NO

except that right now, fueldump is completely terrible for competition. its so lopsided to defense that TWL and CAL are thinking of removing it from competition completely. because hardly anyone ever manages to set a time and it's full hold after full hold.

CorpseGrinder · Post by **CorpseGrinder** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:31 am

I'm seeing the big picture now.

We do need a new dimension to these maps until they come out with some newer competition worthy maps.

Post by **bani** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:34 am

great. there's too many lopsided maps in competition and too few maps as it is. and you're talking about removing a map entirely? just what ET needs to become less popular for leagues.

you'd rather kill a map than fix it? i don't understand that at all.

you trying to kill ET?

Post by **bani** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:46 am

vote reset.

DO NOT VOTE UNLESS YOU PLAY STOPWATCH COMPETITIVELY IN A LEAGUE.

THIS VOTE IS NOT FOR PUBS