I play a lot in organized games with a lot of experienced players, and everyone knows how easy it is to spot a covert, and how it is imbalanced.
I have decided to repost these suggestions here since they target servers at competition servers. (even public ones that tend to have more serious attendances)
1 - Have the disguised coverts have an icon on top of their heads.
(can be taken from the numerous icons this game has, like backstab knife or satchel or the cov-op logo etc)
And since etpro has already implemented an icon feature on top of heads with people with connection problems, we know it's more than possible.
* Further more, i'm sure every who ever played a covert will agree it should override that certain covert-ops request for ammo/medics, because every covert-op knows how annoying it is to get hit by teammates, and how often it happens even with experienced players. (no time to think in high pressured games)
2 - A server flag (can be disabled) which allows cov-ops to pickup weapons of the same class as their suit, accessible via weapon slot 4, and use them as dummy weapon. (simply put, they cannot fire them, as if there is no ammo).
This is simply for the use of fooling.
3 - Another suggestion is to give cov-op level 4 improved damage from the front too. (60-70 damage plus gibbing if you kill, instead of the useless assassin skill, which does 200 damage instead of 100 only on backstab)
And before you say that people will run around with knives, don't forget how hard it is to even get close to an decent enemy.
I appreciate feedback, but i humbly ask that you won't reply your opinion solely to one suggestion - while one of them might seem foolish to some replying the opinion only on that one will make it seem like an overall statment.
Cov-op balancing (headicon, dummy weapons, poison knife)
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Cov-op balancing (headicon, dummy weapons, poison knife)
Last edited by Svartberg on Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
thanks for your feedback.
yes, i agree the third suggestion may have a balancing issue, it seemed must appropriate duh to the fact all the other classes have some kind of an edge in level 3/4 (dual airstrikes, flak jackets, adrenalines, mp40 for soldier, and basically the cov-op didn't get anything)
but luckily the other two don't have any impact on his offensive power, but rather flatten out obvious problems.
yes, i agree the third suggestion may have a balancing issue, it seemed must appropriate duh to the fact all the other classes have some kind of an edge in level 3/4 (dual airstrikes, flak jackets, adrenalines, mp40 for soldier, and basically the cov-op didn't get anything)
but luckily the other two don't have any impact on his offensive power, but rather flatten out obvious problems.
Re: Cov-op balancing (headicon, dummy weapons, poison knife)
I think the suggestions u came up with have crossed atleast 2-3 times in each serious player's mind.
and i beleive that this suggestions should be accepted cause they r very important if we want the cvops class to be more equal because now it is weaker in a very obvious way.
and i beleive that this suggestions should be accepted cause they r very important if we want the cvops class to be more equal because now it is weaker in a very obvious way.
1 - less of a problem now that you can have 8 in a fireteam, but definitely needed for public play.
2 - not sure about this, it'll probably just get coverts killed because they can't fire back when someone spots them. In match play you generally know where your teammates are and if they have recently died or not. even if you don't know the enemy has a cov-op it's still pretty hard for them to sneak in amongst a team where everyone should be in a position. maybe for bayonet?
3 - imo the only thing the knife needs is some sort of mammal bleating when you get a kill
2 - not sure about this, it'll probably just get coverts killed because they can't fire back when someone spots them. In match play you generally know where your teammates are and if they have recently died or not. even if you don't know the enemy has a cov-op it's still pretty hard for them to sneak in amongst a team where everyone should be in a position. maybe for bayonet?
3 - imo the only thing the knife needs is some sort of mammal bleating when you get a kill
How about coverts can only pick up mp40s and thompsons, and they can only do it when they are undercover? When they pick up the weapon, they are able to use it, and it drops their current one putting it in weapon bank 3. Mp40/thompson can be used by generally every class except covert ops, but if you pick up a covert ops uni, you won't need to pick up a new weapon.
Rammstein :
- well that was the idea except for letting them use it.
- i think it modifies too much of the game if you let cov-ops actually use weapons they shouldn't, they were given weaker weapons for a reason.
- you don't have to actually use it in order for it to be useful - for example when i take a soldier uniform, i switch to unsilenced pistol, it does a great job at fooling, but of course if i do anything stupid i die fast.
Hiro :
- i've seen quite a few of organized 8v8 games where the team is split to 2 fireteams (to put order in chaos), of course you're right about CB/FCM's where the fireteam icon is a saver, but i guess it's something that can't hurt only help.
- like i wrote above, i recently started playing cov-op more than ussual, i use this pistol trick a lot (when i get soldier uniform), it does the trick for infiltration (if i need to find mines), plus if i want to i can switch really fast to my main weapon and shoot, and i ussually take the upper hand.
Since it's an option, people can simply choose not to use it, but i think the shot delay in the weapon switch is a great balancing issues so the cov-op won't become more powerful than he should. (after all he's a spy class)
Cheers, and thanks for the feedback =]
- well that was the idea except for letting them use it.
- i think it modifies too much of the game if you let cov-ops actually use weapons they shouldn't, they were given weaker weapons for a reason.
- you don't have to actually use it in order for it to be useful - for example when i take a soldier uniform, i switch to unsilenced pistol, it does a great job at fooling, but of course if i do anything stupid i die fast.
Hiro :
- i've seen quite a few of organized 8v8 games where the team is split to 2 fireteams (to put order in chaos), of course you're right about CB/FCM's where the fireteam icon is a saver, but i guess it's something that can't hurt only help.
- like i wrote above, i recently started playing cov-op more than ussual, i use this pistol trick a lot (when i get soldier uniform), it does the trick for infiltration (if i need to find mines), plus if i want to i can switch really fast to my main weapon and shoot, and i ussually take the upper hand.
Since it's an option, people can simply choose not to use it, but i think the shot delay in the weapon switch is a great balancing issues so the cov-op won't become more powerful than he should. (after all he's a spy class)
Cheers, and thanks for the feedback =]
And why is that ? are they contradicting each other ?
The covert op isn't supposed to be a fragger (aka offensive), however that doesn't not mean he is balanced, i'll try to explain it here :
1. the cov-op has no helmet, and has a low hp, making him an easy target.
2. the cov-op weapons aren't versataile like the smg, each of his weapons fit another role and different ideal ranges (whereas the smg fits all ranges)
3. every class in the game has their own offensive system, this is an fps afterall.
These things make him a weak choice in typical offensive situation, which leads to the simple conclusion that the cov-op has a different role, a sort of a spy role.
Generally speaking, his role is to be a pain in the ass - find mines, smoke the enemy, assassin campers or any other key enemies. (engineer when he heads for the objective, etc)
Here come the point, he got an imbalance in his infiltration system, he can easily be spotted, making his role flawed and therefore rising the debate in the first place.
I hope this answers the confusion (my english isn't that good), i try to make my proposition as much fit to the main ET as i can, and of course i wouldn't mind making his arsenal stronger, but it just won't work in a mod like etpro.
I humbly request that people won't start a debate about covert-ops and their role now, thanks.
The covert op isn't supposed to be a fragger (aka offensive), however that doesn't not mean he is balanced, i'll try to explain it here :
1. the cov-op has no helmet, and has a low hp, making him an easy target.
2. the cov-op weapons aren't versataile like the smg, each of his weapons fit another role and different ideal ranges (whereas the smg fits all ranges)
3. every class in the game has their own offensive system, this is an fps afterall.
These things make him a weak choice in typical offensive situation, which leads to the simple conclusion that the cov-op has a different role, a sort of a spy role.
Generally speaking, his role is to be a pain in the ass - find mines, smoke the enemy, assassin campers or any other key enemies. (engineer when he heads for the objective, etc)
Here come the point, he got an imbalance in his infiltration system, he can easily be spotted, making his role flawed and therefore rising the debate in the first place.
I hope this answers the confusion (my english isn't that good), i try to make my proposition as much fit to the main ET as i can, and of course i wouldn't mind making his arsenal stronger, but it just won't work in a mod like etpro.
I humbly request that people won't start a debate about covert-ops and their role now, thanks.
@Svartberg: You keep saying the covert ops is not supposed to be an offensive class but then you list OFFENSIVE "unbalances." The Covert Ops *should* be a smart class (IE. choosing a weapon for a certain range that you know you'll have to cover), most other classes you just attack without thinking of which weapon is the most efficient.
"Generally speaking, his role is to be a pain in the ass - find mines, smoke the enemy, assassin campers or any other key enemies."
How is that a pain in the ass? Those are vital aspects to a successful team...
"Generally speaking, his role is to be a pain in the ass - find mines, smoke the enemy, assassin campers or any other key enemies."
How is that a pain in the ass? Those are vital aspects to a successful team...
Dude, you totally misunderstand me, what you just said is *exactly* what i'm trying to say.bacon wrote:@Svartberg: You keep saying the covert ops is not supposed to be an offensive class but then you list OFFENSIVE "unbalances." The Covert Ops *should* be a smart class (IE. choosing a weapon for a certain range that you know you'll have to cover), most other classes you just attack without thinking of which weapon is the most efficient.
"Generally speaking, his role is to be a pain in the ass - find mines, smoke the enemy, assassin campers or any other key enemies."
How is that a pain in the ass? Those are vital aspects to a successful team...
I'm playing in tactical teamwork games a lot, and the cov-op is an essential class, just because i said "being a pain in the ass" doesn't mean is a bad thing, you should see me as a covert, i'm a serious pain in the ass, for example today in my squad practice i pretty much finished the game without fragging too much, but i made a lot of chaos, smoke was everywhere, towards the end of the map (oasis) i was right under their nose (in the base) hiding and finding nearly all the mines, and gradually when my mates planted the dynamite i surprised and eliminated one of the engineers. (i'm not saying it was all that good the other team from my squad won at the end, but i did my part pretty well)
I really ask that you at least take a glimpse in my covert op document i wrote, just so you'll see my style isn't that dumb (heh)
http://www.angeltowns.com/members/svart ... rative.txt
(copy the link location and paste it in the url box or it won't work)
As for the offensive thing, the suggestions i implied would not make his weapons better or his fg42 more accurate, they will fix annoying teamdamage (for example rifle grenades which requirs a high vantage point), they will make his infiltration capabilities better (to get to the point where his job is done), and as a bonus change level 4 cov-op to something which actually works.
They don't come in a pack, if you don't agree with one it doesn't mean you have to not agree with the others, i just posted 3 big problems i noticed during my long play with ET. (covert-ops always were and always will be, if these suggestions will pass, a very tricky class)
Of course there's nothing wrong with a covert op being able to frag, but giving cov-ops smg's is just something bani will never put in ETPro.RammStein wrote:If I had a choice to use a sniper rifle for close combat or an smg, I would toss down the rifle and pick up an smg. There is really nothing wrong with the covert ops being able to frag, once he shoots the uniform disappears anyway.
(to tell you the truth, the reason i even suggested the second feature was because i thought cov-ops should have some kinds of access to the guns)
About the cov-op weapons, they aren't all that bad, you're damn right the smg is the ideal gun in ET, but i still have very high frags with them - you get a serious advantage when you succeed in fooling your enemy, and if you use it well you get 1-2 headshots before they can react. (fortunatly for fooling, weapon switching is very fast in ET)
I guess the downside is that each gun fits another role, and the smg on the contrary is ideal for all ranges.
To be honest i didn't quite understand that (english isn't my first language).RammStein wrote:Eh true, you would be able to get a few headshots off rather quickly, but nothing you wouldn't be able to do with an fg-42.
What i meant was that the headstart shots give the weak cov-op weapons an advantage to counter the enemy's smgs, this was a response to what you've said that cov-ops should actually be able to fire the smg's.
It may seem a worthless feature to you because you can't fire them, but it's surprising how convincing it is when it works.
For example when you use an unsilenced luger with a soldier uniform, the enemies ourside the noname range will ussually be clueless as to your true alignment, making them easy targets (unless of course you rush them making it obvious who you are), yet smart players are always suspicious and i think it's all part of the game, everyone has his fare share of chance, that is - if we'll get dummy weapons hehehe ...