question for smart ppl

[ouroboro]

since wallhacks/radar hacks depend on the fact that the client actually knows where everyone else is already, and the hack simply shows the user things that walls normally hide, how feasible would it be to make it so the client has no info on where other clients are until they are within a line of sight (or an instant before that, to allow for slight errors - so an enemy doesn't suddenly appear out of thin air)?

seems to me that would fix the problem once and for all, no? and while aimbots are certainly nasty, they're basically NEVER used in a match due to being so obvious. and even on pubs they stick out like a sore thumb so you can simply go elsewhere.

but the wallhacks/radars are the more insidious problem, and easy to hide. take away it's ability to work and that's the end of it - forever (short of hacking the server, which doesn't happen).

[ReyalP]

since wallhacks/radar hacks depend on the fact that the client actually knows where everyone else is already, and the hack simply shows the user things that walls normally hide, how feasible would it be to make it so the client has no info on where other clients are until they are within a line of sight (or an instant before that, to allow for slight errors - so an enemy doesn't suddenly appear out of thin air)?

Gee, if that were easy do, wouldn't every game already do it ? Not only would it stop cheats, it would be more efficient rendering too.

There are actually some features on newer GFX cards that might allow this kind of thing, but that would require serious work in the engine (since even bani doesn't have the renderer code, that isn't going to happen in ET.)

In any case, there would still be ways around it. With current network capabilities, clients simply *must* have more information than the user is supposed to have. By definition it will always be possible to extract and represent this illicitly.

BTW, this does happen already to a certain extent. Current wallhacks don't show people outside of your PVS, which in some places, is right around the corner.

[ouroboro]

oky dokey, that's why i asked. thanks for the facts

BTW, WTF is PVS?

oh, and do u think that will be the route devs will take eventually, when technology allows it? coz to me it seems like an ideal solution

[ReyalP]

oky dokey, that's why i asked. thanks for the facts

BTW, WTF is PVS?

PVS: Potentially Visible Set.

When you compile a q3 engine map, it does a phase called VIS, that figures out which parts of the map can be seen from other parts. Each section of the map has a list of other sections to be draw. A player is only drawn if they are in one of the visible sections (in fact, their position may not even be transmitted over the network if they are outside your PVS). You can see this in action with r_showtris 2

oh, and do u think that will be the route devs will take eventually, when technology allows it? coz to me it seems like an ideal solution

Perhaps. However, it doesn't solve the fundamental problem of the client having too much information.

[RoadKillPuppy]

and while aimbots are certainly nasty, they're basically NEVER used in a match due to being so obvious.

There is something called a 'humanized' aim setting for aimbots... Almost impossible to spot...

[ouroboro]

There is something called a 'humanized' aim setting for aimbots... Almost impossible to spot...

nah i've had a look at those, i've never seen any human i know shoot like they do. i can spot an aimbot every time - humanized or not. they just try to make you look sloppy, but the "sloppiness" effect is itself easy to spot.

aimbots are not used in competition play, or i should say, if they are and they are not spotted, the opposing team deserved the loss. if you don't have the brainpower to tie your shoes, you shouldn't be playing video games.

i defy anyone to get an aimbot past me. send me demos - some confirmed aimbots and some confirmed non-aimbots but supreme aimers - i'll pick out the morally-challenged ones every time, guaranteed

walling is another matter. as easily hidden as the sportsmanship of those that use them...

[>>steven!]

idd, its easy to tell between a good player and one that cheats, if u play alongside good players regularly

[Spoofeh]

aimbots are not used in competition play, or i should say, if they are and they are not spotted, the opposing team deserved the loss.

You mean you can spot an aimbot with 100% certainty without even speccing the player, or do you always have access to demos of everone on the opposing team?

[>>steven!]

yes u can have strong suspicians, and this can be confirmed by asking for the demos after the game, as any disputes r solved by player demos and if no demos then sorry ur guilty :>

[Vegeta]

From the Off Topic Area

http://www.planet-rtcw.com/?page=pow&id=248

Seems there were many people suspicious(sp?) of S!lo but nobody could actually get a real answer to him cheating until he finally slipped up. Many top players in the CAL league didn't get him, so you think you could?

[Grim|EFG]

or do you always have access to demos of everone on the opposing team?

No... but the admins do.

[ReyalP]

or do you always have access to demos of everone on the opposing team?

No... but the admins do.

Yes, but the admins do not routinely watch them. As a player, who has not speced the cheater, it is much harder to notice, or even suspect the person of cheating.

[ouroboro]

i recently sent something to EB and this was part of their reply:

"As a reminder, PLEASE don't test any hack out yourself to see if they "work" or not. You're liable to unwittingly get yourself banned in the interest of helping us out as we are now running silent detection for future kicks/bans. Just send in the hacks and we'll take care of it."

:D:D PB pwnz, silent bans is like what VAC does, hehe

[>>steven!]

yeah so maybe we will have as many hacks available as counterstrike does.

pwnage

[ouroboro]

well valve hasn't updated vac in ages and IMO they won't anytime soon, because quite frankly they want HL1 and it's mods to die to make way for HL2. same reason Id releases the source to the previous engine when they make a new one. i hate to say that coz i'm a total Carmack fanboy, but it's only logical.

kill off the old in raging torrent of hax to make way for the new.

but yeh, CS:S is a cesspool of cheating, so i've put playing that on hold till the new VAC is implemented into it. also DoD:S is gonna rip me a new one, cant wait WW2 on the source engine *drools*

best news tho is that hl2 and its mods are D3D which means less hacks, unless i misunderstand. online multiplayer gaming is one example where open source can blow me. closed proprietary might at least slow down the hax (i hope). coz any jerkoff can slap together an opengl hack, just go to opengl.com for all the help you need