Sorry for re-opening a so hated argument, but afaik I never heard about this proposal, so I'd like to give a try.
Thinking about some sort of restriction that could make proning player just a bit uncomfortable with this solution, my proposal is why not to extend the handble mg limitation (when fixed on the floor) to general proning. It simply restricts the aim range avoiding the so hated prone delay. It gives a certain advantage to the not-proning player but, at the same time, it could still be helpful for the proning one. Plus it should be somthing already coded in mg soldier movements, so (I suppose) not so hard to re-code for other players ones.
ps: my proposal is obviously intended as a server cvar. I'd never propose smthg that would force everyone to use it.
m2c
Prone proposal
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To me, your proposal sounds like an idea which deserves further testing. I think that it might be even more important than limiting the horizontal movement to limit the vertical movement, bearing in mind the typical situations where proning happens (narrow corridors, short range).
I'd also like to jump onto the train with another suggestion, which came up in a forum discussion some time ago. The pronedelay which is already implemented by ETPro wasn't accepted very well by the community because it also interferes with the "legitimate" (i.e. what most people regard as ok) usage of proning, like an engineer building an objective. Hence, the idea is to only restrict the ability to shoot in conjunction with proning. More specifically, to add a shootdelay cvar (such a change would have to be optional of course, like Frauz already said) which sets a time interval after using "+prone" during which one can't fire any gun (but should still be able to use a syringe or pliers for example).
It would be cool if anyone of the ETPro team could comment on the possibility (or the required time) to implement any of those two features.
I'd also like to jump onto the train with another suggestion, which came up in a forum discussion some time ago. The pronedelay which is already implemented by ETPro wasn't accepted very well by the community because it also interferes with the "legitimate" (i.e. what most people regard as ok) usage of proning, like an engineer building an objective. Hence, the idea is to only restrict the ability to shoot in conjunction with proning. More specifically, to add a shootdelay cvar (such a change would have to be optional of course, like Frauz already said) which sets a time interval after using "+prone" during which one can't fire any gun (but should still be able to use a syringe or pliers for example).
It would be cool if anyone of the ETPro team could comment on the possibility (or the required time) to implement any of those two features.
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daytroxative
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- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:15 am
i think in real life... the aim would be great along a horizontal plane... up to a certain degree... once you start getting to veritcal and moving around alot.. you'd lose accuracy... especially when you see proners in games doing the worm, and breakdancing shooting (I'm sure it can be done easily in real life anyways, so no point stopping it) ... i see no reason in restricting range of aim... but accuracy on a plane or movement basis seems more reasonable to me as a choosable feature...
I think real life should be left out of discussions like this. ET, like all other FPSes, are far from real life. Sprinting around shooting from the hip? Hitting a guy four or five times in the chest, and all he does is run away tossing boxes in front of himself. I don't think so. Mods like True Combat and the likes are more acurate regarding this, but alas, dead-boring. You are free to disagree, off course.daytroxative wrote:i think in real life... the aim would be great along a horizontal plane... up to a certain degree... once you start getting to veritcal and moving around alot.. you'd lose accuracy... especially when you see proners in games doing the worm, and breakdancing shooting (I'm sure it can be done easily in real life anyways, so no point stopping it) ... i see no reason in restricting range of aim... but accuracy on a plane or movement basis seems more reasonable to me as a choosable feature...
I don't get the prone-discussions. I've never had a problem with proners. They are a bit harder to hit size-wise, but then again they keep still. Great! Easy kills. Let it rest. Practice moving around and shooting at immobile targets.
Will probably get a ton of flamers after me for speaking up, but hey! Flamers die easily.
I am root! Bow before me.
Both are ideas that have a lot of merit. The restriction of movement I'm not sure about - it would require testing. The shootdelay that Tron proposes, however, is something I've been arguing for (albeit not very actively) for around a month now. I think it's a far more useful, practical and elegant method than pronedelay - it prevents the 'lame' exploit of proning in short-range combat while not hindering the 'legitimate' uses of prone such as engineering or simply hiding behind a low wall (perhaps to reload).
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EagleReloaded
- Posts: 278
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- Location: Sydney, Australia
I think prone needs to be drastically re-engineered, because it really is pretty ridiculous in it's current form. I'd approve of a shoot delay because it's pretty impossible to dive to the ground and accurately shoot someone along the way. Hindering movement would be good, but only to a certain degree, because you can roll around and raise your upper torso and bam, 180 degree turn. If prone is going to be somewhat nerfed like this though then I propose that in the interest of balance, you be able to perform actions while you move - ie reload. I find it irritating as hell that if you're moving you can't reload, but if you stop, start reloading then continue moving, it cheerfully reloads without a second thought.
Some people play tennis, I erode the human soul.
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[DA]ZephyR
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Mano de Dios
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 7:06 am
While it is silly that you can't reload while moving, and you have to pause, it is much quicker to whip out your pistol and continue shooting then it is to reload.[DA]ZephyR wrote:I think that EagleReloaded is right about the reload problem.
Still, I think the shoot-delay when proning and the restricted movement while proning sound interesting. I agree that they need testing. I don't have a problem with proners, but I always am interested in steps to prevent abuse.
I like the idea of a shoot delay. Let's be honest, regardless of how "leet" we all think we are and how "easily" we claim to be able to deal with proners the simple fact is those that do it do so to gain an advantage in a 1-v-1, and if it didn't give them an advantage they wouldn't do it.
The solution however can only be something that doesn't effect the legitimate use of prone (using pliers / syringe (or even reloading) etc.), which unfortunately b_pronedelay does. A shoot delay sounds like the perfect solution as long as it's only weapons that are delayed.
The only possible problem I can see is that shoot delay should not be affected by weapon switching. For example, suppose someone used a script to quickly change weapon while proning, like:-
bind x "cg_weaponcycledelay 0; weaponbank 6; +prone; weaponbank 3"
which, in theory, would give them pliers (if Engie) prior to proning then immediately switch to SMG as they're going down, thereby circumventing the delay.
The solution however can only be something that doesn't effect the legitimate use of prone (using pliers / syringe (or even reloading) etc.), which unfortunately b_pronedelay does. A shoot delay sounds like the perfect solution as long as it's only weapons that are delayed.
The only possible problem I can see is that shoot delay should not be affected by weapon switching. For example, suppose someone used a script to quickly change weapon while proning, like:-
bind x "cg_weaponcycledelay 0; weaponbank 6; +prone; weaponbank 3"
which, in theory, would give them pliers (if Engie) prior to proning then immediately switch to SMG as they're going down, thereby circumventing the delay.
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EagleReloaded
- Posts: 278
- Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:15 pm
- Location: Sydney, Australia
That's some constructive thoughts there SCDS_reyalP.
You can't change weapons either whilst you're moving and prone. You can't do anything except crawl along like a slug with no arms.
The dying thing is a good point as well. The question is, does the hitbox you need to gib shift up to standing with the animation, or are they separate?
You can't change weapons either whilst you're moving and prone. You can't do anything except crawl along like a slug with no arms.
The dying thing is a good point as well. The question is, does the hitbox you need to gib shift up to standing with the animation, or are they separate?
Some people play tennis, I erode the human soul.