/kill again ...

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Ramon
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/kill again ...

Post by Ramon »

Hi,
as the headline says, this is about the /kill-thing, as discussed already in several threads like this one . As there was a lot of positive feedback, I thought it would be reasonable to post a seperate thread in here, where I couldn't find any post related to /kill up to now.
I'd also welcome a selfkill related variable similar to ETPubs g_fear VERY much in ETPro. I've implemented that ETPub and Jaymod featured selfkill-variable g_slashkill on several servers now, but lowering the charge-bar on respawn when a player does /kill surely didn't do any good as far as I can say, as it constantly punished those doing /kill who were not in a fight. g_fear, however DID a great job in automatically punishing those wanting to deny the enemy the XP he/she deserves for a kill. Here's the description for those unaware what g_fear is:
g_fear [integer]

If a player uses the /kill command within g_fear milliseconds after taking damage from an enemy, the attacker that last damaged that player will recieve full credit for the kill and the mode of death will be recorded as MOD_FEAR. Other restrictions are that the attacker must be on the opposite team and the attacker must still be alive.

In-game statistics will reflect that the death was caused by the weapon that did the last recorded damage to the player.

Set this to 0 to disable this behaviour.

Default is 2000 (2 seconds)
Whether this feature is implemented on a server or not is another question and the responsibility of the server administrator, however, I'd welcome the possibility to do so very much in ETPro. I know about the possibility to enable /kill only some seconds prior respawn in ETPro, however, something similar to ETPubs g_fear would approach the issue in another, IMO more suitable way in order to deal with selfkill in fight, if it's not wanted on a server.
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Fusen
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Post by Fusen »

leave kill alone full stop its fine as is
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Last edited by Fusen on Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ramon
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Post by Ramon »

Fusen wrote:leave kill alone full stop its fine as is

Well, thats your personal opinion, which is welcome of course. But this threads' intention is also to find out, what the many others out there think. Full stop.
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Ragnar_40k
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Post by Ragnar_40k »

I don't see that any leagues would use such a g_fear-cvar - it is a pub-only feature.
I think a kill-limit cvar would be better.
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deej
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Post by deej »

I think it can be useful because of the way it's implemented:

It only triggers if somebody selfkills WITHIN x msecs of being shot at. This mechanism could then be used to either
a) put kill limit or whatever restriction -> good for comp / pub
b) put public shame on people -> good for pubs

The fact that this feature is quickly dismissed with "it's a comp mod" argument is too black & white and as such irrelevant. There are numerous features that are absolutely not required in a comp mod that have been implemented in ETPro.

The length of the discussions on /kill shows that the ET community is definitely pondering about /kill & what do with it. If we could have at least the calculation mechanism in place and perhaps a wider range of choices for admins to take relevant actions, I think the majority of the community would be very pleased.
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ReyalP
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Post by ReyalP »

deej wrote: a) put kill limit or whatever restriction -> good for comp / pub
A kill limit or restriction would be bad for comp IMO.

However, g_fear would have no practical impact at all on comp. With stickycharge 2 and no XP, the reason to /kill is not to deny someone else the kill, but to get back to your spawn with full health and ammo, either because you realize you are out of position, in a hopeless situation, or need to group up with your team for the next rush. None of this would be changed by g_fear. The only thing it would change is the end round stats.

On pubs, it might reduce the whining about /kill which would be completely fine with me. Again, it would have little (if it caused the person awared the kill ot get some xp) or no impact on gameplay.

The implementation of g_fear would be somewhat problematic in the case of people who /kill to avoid PFs, rnades etc.

If it were my choice, I don't think I'd put a lot of effort into implementing it, but perhaps one of the etpro devs will feell different :moo:
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EvilJohn
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Post by EvilJohn »

I ask, because I am not sure. Does this not give credit to the attacker, when the opponent self kills?
set b_damagexp "1"

I guess you want full credit for the kill.
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Blackout
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Post by Blackout »

Ramon wrote:this threads' intention is also to find out, what the many others out there think. Full stop.
1. if you searched for /kill threads before posting, you would already know what "the many others out there think"
2. please do some thinking of your own first, so that you can show us how /kill is currently broken (your argument will automatically sink if you need pubs to justify it)
Ramon
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Post by Ramon »

First of all, thank you for an excellent example for an unconstructive post, "Blackout"!
Blackout wrote: 1. if you searched for /kill threads before posting, you would already know what "the many others out there think"
... Boy, if you'd read my post, you'd know that I want to discuss a variable similar to ETPubs g_fear for ETPro. The reasonable stuff I found in other threads, I picked up. Didn't want to hijack an existing thread for that issue. Can't really say this about your post.
However, look above: word is, there's some room for discussion here as the issue is quite controversial.

Blackout wrote: 2. please do some thinking of your own first, so that you can show us how /kill is currently broken (your argument will automatically sink if you need pubs to justify it)
What are you talking about ... learn to express yourself in english, so I can get your point, if there is one actually. None of your post contained any constructive matter. Please consider posting only, if you got to say something about the issue itself, which I seriously doubt. You can PM me the rest. Thanks.
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Post by Blackout »

"Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!"
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Deus
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Post by Deus »

OMFGSTFUKTHXBYE
;)

There is already a thread regarding the *_fear thing (at least 2 IIRC).

Personally i like the idea, and it should not be too hard to implement. (I can try if i find time to realise it)

I don't think it will be of use for comp play cause noone ever cares (enemy is dead, no matter how, main thing is done: HE IS DEAD)
On pubs people (mainly statwhores) whine for a kill they should be awarded for, but in the end the only thing is: THE ENEMY IS DEAD.

I don't like selfkillers (take those "legal" ones as mentioned above out) and like to see a thing like *_fear (there could be a new award for most fearkills (cowardice) :lol: ).

CLOSEPLZKTHXBYE
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deej
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Post by deej »

[pH*Deus] wrote:Personally i like the idea, and it should not be too hard to implement. (I can try if i find time to realise it)
That would be awesome 8). I think if you ask tjw (etpub developper) he'll probably allow you to use his code. Could shorten the development time :p.
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sponge
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Post by sponge »

http://et.tjw.org/etpub/

ETPub is open source.
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deej
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Post by deej »

sponge wrote:http://et.tjw.org/etpub/

ETPub is open source.
Yes but ETPro isn't so as a form of courtesy you should ask the developper permission instead of shamelessly ripping off his work.
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next_ghost
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Post by next_ghost »

SCDS_reyalP wrote:A kill limit or restriction would be bad for comp IMO.
I agree.
However, g_fear would have no practical impact at all on comp. With stickycharge 2 and no XP, the reason to /kill is not to deny someone else the kill, but to get back to your spawn with full health and ammo, either because you realize you are out of position, in a hopeless situation, or need to group up with your team for the next rush. None of this would be changed by g_fear. The only thing it would change is the end round stats.
Absolutely! I had a big problem getting east radar parts on radar once (3on3 I think). One axis medic was camping the slope between garage and axis spawn. Every time we attacked, he gave us some beating, /killed himself about a second before spawn time and ran away from spawn just to finnish us. He did it more than 10 times before someone managed to escape with parts while others kept him away. If he hadn't /killed himself every time, we'd be away with parts in no time.

Maybe g_feardelay [seconds] would help. When someone /kills himself and triggers g_fear, he would miss all spawns until g_feardelay seconds pass from his death. Special values (negative?) for team spawn timer length and its fractions would be needed.
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