r_wolffog 0 = slap in the face for mappers

[Nellie-]

Seriously though McNite you’re massively over-exagerating. Played quite a few scrims now with it set to 0 on competition maps, and honestly haven’t noticed any difference bar a slight fps increase. If all you’re worried about is public play simply force it to 1…

[maarten144]

I like it. First of my GF2 gets a fps boost ^^ and secondly you dont really notice it, at least not on the competive maplist. As for some publics concerned, ask the server admin to force it. But i dont care for public:)

[McNite]

on competition maps

Most of them dont have fog or dont use it for clipping. Afaik only radar uses fog for clipping purposes. So no wonder you didn't notice much.

[ouroboro]

Wow I read the xfire thread...

Didnt think you can get such stupid reasoning... like wow my fps go from 190 to 227 now that s leet... no comment.

how about "wow my fps went from 20 to 40"? e.g. unplayable to almost tolerable?

not everyone has a nice machine. fog hides nothing as far as helping players be stealthy. you can still see people the same with or without it. ok i'll grant you it leaves a harsh border where vis ends and if you're a mapper that might make you sad. but nobody gives a damn what your map looks like in comp, only how it plays. sorry.

anyway, all PB did was make it so you're not kicked if you have fog off. before, even with cheats on, that cvar would kick you. now it doesn't. but it's still a cheat and thus won't work on 99% of servers. NOTHING has changed in your world. in order to use this, an etpro config has to force it off on the clients. how many pubs do you think will do that? very few. those frequented by comp players.

also, i find it troubling that one would prefer to enforce a lower performance on players simply because they want to make sure everybody sees his map the way he intended. seems incredibly selfish to me.

[McNite]

Ouro believe it or not, but any mapper putting effort in his map, does understand it as a work of art. There would be no use in custom textures, lighting and decorating the map if you don't. And strong cvars like this are raping a map.
Also fog is used to get a certain kind of gameplay too, ignoring that would be ignorant. If a mapper doesnt want fog, he doesnt put it in.

I think ragnar is way more accurate about his glosse than you guys realize.

Having read the discussion on xfire there is one conclusion for me: don't put any effort into mapping for competition, its not worth the effort. They can do fine with boxes like ragnar said, and they can do it themselves.

[maarten144]

on competition maps

Most of them dont have fog or dont use it for clipping. Afaik only radar uses fog for clipping purposes. So no wonder you didn't notice much.

I know that, thats why I dont mind this cvar and even on maps who dont really use wolffog, i.e. battery I still get fps gain:)

[McNite]

There is fog on battery, and its used to hide the transition of water to sky. Only its distance is VERY far away (around 8000 units).

There is no "don't really use fog" tbh, either there is fog in the map or there isn't.
On Radar eg. its a short distance though to reduce the max view distance of the players. This improves FPS, because on radar (with the grass too) nobody would get steadily decent FPS if there wasnt any clipping (steadily decent: above 43 all the time)

[WeblionX]

As a mapper, and having been around other mappers, I think the general consensus is that a comp map has to be linear with one objective, and making it an empty cube would probably satisfy half the comp players. They don't care about how a map looks, only how it plays. Therefore I've stopped worrying about how comp players like my levels and just make them for myself, otherwise all the fun of making a level would be gone. Ifurita stopped mapping because he was so fed up with comp players. At this point I'm kind of happy that they never noticed me and started whining about my levels.

[The Necromancer]

comp players just learned to whine, a mod doing what ragnarok said will fill they needs

[ReyalP]

Ouro believe it or not, but any mapper putting effort in his map, does understand it as a work of art. There would be no use in custom textures, lighting and decorating the map if you don't.

But as a mapper, you have to be aware that a large number of players, especially those who spend the most time and energy playing, don't care at ALL about the eyecandy, and indeed, would rather your map looked like this http://www.swertcw.com/potw.php?id=74 from the start. (of course, no matter what you made they'd still whine, but thats beside the point)

You can dislike it if you want, but that doesn't change the facts. Neither will jumping up and down and yelling.

If it satisfies YOU to make great looking maps, then by all means, put the effort into making great looking maps. There are certainly people who will appreciate them. Just because some people won't see or care about that aspect of the map doesn't make the effort worthless.

[The Necromancer]

is that doom I-II god mode?!

[ouroboro]

@McNite: FWIW, i'm of two minds as fas as gaming. for singleplayer, i crank up all the eyecandy regardless of bad performance. it's worth dying to a bot because my framerate dropped to single digits, as long as it looked awesome and made me smile. in multiplayer, i do the opposite - fps and visibility are the two driving factors and i will sacrifice any amount of eye-candy to increase them. i cannot tolerate losing to another human due to low performance. when i am bested, i want to know it was purely based on skill.

so yes, i DO appreciate beautiful maps. i recently finished Q4, and the reason it took so long was that i was always stopping to take in all the details. i love that shit. but you ARE on the ETPro forums, you know.

[The Necromancer]

i dont care if i have 80 or 200 FPS , but i dont like what comp players do to game..
If comp player post a screenshot it looks almost always retarded..
In this view it doesnt mind if there is fog or if isnt..
As I said i hate square clipping on fog