Banning mortar scripts

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Digm
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Post by Digm »

Using a mortar is more about timing and predicting where the enemy will be than shooting at predefined spots.
Grizbo
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Post by Grizbo »

Digm wrote:Using a mortar is more about timing and predicting where the enemy will be than shooting at predefined spots.
So you'd say that having north gun, south gun, spawn and mg nest (for example) all bound to keys with it automatically positioning itself perfectly to create a perfect, endlessly repeatable (aside from ammo) at the touch of a button is no advantage at all then?

Its automated aiming, like it or not. Yeah, you could make the same shot if you knew your stuff, but thats the point precisely, you DON'T have to anymore with scripts like this. And as has been mentioned, there's the pressure factor, human error totally removed from it, its a perfect shot (assuming it was set up right), every time exactly where you expect it.

Whether you're for or against, you have to admit if it was assisting SMG fire rather than mortar fire it'd be an open and shut case. For me, the fact its a mortar makes it no less automated aiming. I mean whats an aimbot if its not a set of scripted commands to make sure your fire is landing in the right place...?
Sphere
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Post by Sphere »

Digm wrote:Using a mortar is more about timing and predicting where the enemy will be than shooting at predefined spots.
With all due respect, that simply isn't true. Only n00bs would use a mortar without knowing where the shot is going to land before they fire it.

All those who think that a mortar script isn't an unfair advantage should actually try playing as one in a tough match. If there's no skill involved then why are some so much better than others ? And if you think they're all the same you just haven't seen a good one.

Anyway, this isn't a debate about whether it's cheating or not. I'm just looking for a definitive answer on what measures can be taken to prevent it. :)
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gotenks
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Post by gotenks »

how hard would it be to limit fps, then modify waits to do the exact same thing?
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Post by duke'ku »

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RoadKillPuppy
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Post by RoadKillPuppy »

How does it work anyway?
Is it possible with q3 scripting to compute current-position vs. position-to-hit, or is the current-position fixed?

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Spark2
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Post by Spark2 »

Yeah fixed position of course.
Ragnarok|GER
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Post by Ragnarok|GER »

Grizbo wrote: Whether you're for or against, you have to admit if it was assisting SMG fire rather than mortar fire it'd be an open and shut case. For me, the fact its a mortar makes it no less automated aiming.
let's try to admit the principle of a mortar script to smgs:
let's say your camping at the mg on oasis. the only think such a script would do, is aiming automaticly at gate2, gate3, gate4, north and south gun. it would neither detect your enemy nor aim at them. is it still an advantage? sure, because you're a bit faster and there's no human error. but would anyone care? no, because it's just like a 180°-script. and.. let's face it. no serious player would ever use such a ridiculous script..

_a mortar-script NEITHER detects your enemy, NOR aims at them! it only shoots at predefined spots!_
meLonF
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Post by meLonF »

Ragnarok|GER wrote:
Grizbo wrote: Whether you're for or against, you have to admit if it was assisting SMG fire rather than mortar fire it'd be an open and shut case. For me, the fact its a mortar makes it no less automated aiming.
let's try to admit the principle of a mortar script to smgs:
let's say your camping at the mg on oasis. the only think such a script would do, is aiming automaticly at gate2, gate3, gate4, north and south gun. it would neither detect your enemy nor aim at them. is it still an advantage? sure, because you're a bit faster and there's no human error. but would anyone care? no, because it's just like a 180°-script. and.. let's face it. no serious player would ever use such a ridiculous script..

_a mortar-script NEITHER detects your enemy, NOR aims at them! it only shoots at predefined spots!_
that is one way of looking at it.... another would be to liken a mortar script to the +centreview command in RTCW. +centerview didn't detect an enemy nor aim at them but it did offer a distinct advantage in certain situations, by locking the crosshair at head height
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Kendle
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Post by Kendle »

Ragnarok|GER wrote:a mortar-script NEITHER detects your enemy, NOR aims at them! it only shoots at predefined spots!
..with greater reliability and considerably less effort than is humanly possible.

Open and shut case IMO, leagues should counter whatever cvars are being manipulated to enable these scripts to work.
SickBoy
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Post by SickBoy »

how can some of you people NOT consider this cheating?

automated aiming = aimbot = cheat

simple as that.
Sphere
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Post by Sphere »

I get the feeling some people here have never played mortar before. Which is fair enough - but don't pretend you're an expert on how much of a difference a script makes.

Here's an example for you. Eng has got up past Axis command post on Oasis and heading for North, but can't get through because of xfire from MG and South archway. Axis will spawn behind him shortly. Using the mortar as it was designed means the soldier has to hit those two spots as quickly as possible to give the Eng a chance of planting. This requires both accuracy and speed.
- If the soldier successfully lands both shots quickly, clears the xfire and allows the Eng to get through - great job. But it's not easy, and neither should it be.
- With a script this is a few key presses and a guarantee of clearing those areas. Which is TOTALLY different, and please don't let's have any more of "he could have co-ordinates written down on a piece of paper" because it's simply not comparable in terms of either time or accuracy. It is a HUGE advantage to have a script.

A team using a script will win matches because of it. It's a fact. Not at the top level, but mid-low range matches. If you don't agree you should play with a good mortar and see what impact it can have on a match. ofc if you put a useless twat in charge of the mortaring he can still screw it up, but it's hardly a compelling argument - almost anyone can learn the basics.

Now before people start saying, "well if everyone has them it's equal", hold on a second and think of the impact this would have on ET. You want more spam ? You want to have some guy with the finger on the trigger of a weapon that's pre-programed with your co-ordinates all the time ? Yes, I KNOW he can't see you, but if that's the best argument then I suggest the use of comms a little more.

There have been a lot of changes which have reduced spam. Not trying to prevent this scripting would have completely the opposite effect.

You want a comparison ? It's like giving one country standard missiles and the other Cruise missiles. And throw in a database of all strategic locations.
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Kendle
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Post by Kendle »

A Mortar can be devastating on some maps, most notably Oasis, because certain spots are optimal defensive positions and the Mortar can reach them as Sphere points out above. But reaching all of them, in the correct sequence, and in quick succession, requires a great deal of skill, possibly beyond that attainable by even the best Mortar players, but not beyond the capabilities of this script, even in the hands of the unskilled. How that isn't cheating is beyond me.

Without wishing to sound like a fanboy, Sphere is CL of the UK's No.1 Clan and acknowledged as one of the best Mortar players in the game. I think his opinions should carry rather more wieght than the guy who's tried Mortar a few times on a public and written it off as a "noob" weapon.
Sphere
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Post by Sphere »

/me is definitely giving Kendle a hug for that one... haha :)
Digm
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Post by Digm »

Sphere wrote: With all due respect, that simply isn't true. Only n00bs would use a mortar without knowing where the shot is going to land before they fire it.
With all due respect, you completely missed my point. OF COURSE shooting at the right spots is important, but if you shoot at the "wrong" time (i.e. when no one is there) it's completely useless.
All those who think that a mortar script isn't an unfair advantage should actually try playing as one in a tough match. If there's no skill involved then why are some so much better than others ? And if you think they're all the same you just haven't seen a good one.
Any team worth their salt will be able to get around it. You can see where the mortars have hit. You either avoid those spots, or you wait for them to hit and then go forward. It's actually EASIER to avoid them when the person is using a script, because they're hitting the same spots every time. A good mortar will vary his spots depending on where the other team is moving.
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