Fuel Dump - hovering tank & wall jumping

[thanny]

While I found it a bit annoying that the tank wouldn't move onto the bridge if there was planted dynamite, I think the "cure" is even worse - you will frequently see a tank hovering over a damaged or even completely destroyed bridge. The tank shouldn't move if planted dynamite would blow up before it was across.

By wall jumping, I mean the ability for a lone engineer to jump into the depot just outside the mountain exit, onto the upper axis spawn exit. It's also possible to jump the fuel dump defenses.

Beyond that, three people can stack into the depot via the guard hut, with normal jumping. With pushing enabled (normal strength), one person can launch another over the side wall, with just a little barbed wire damage.

I've no doubt there are plenty of arguments about depot defense waiting to be spewed out of several keyboards, but they will all miss the point. The map shouldn't allow the Allies to win before the tank has blown the depot doors without the aid of a covert in uniform (or a daft Axis player opening the door).

[nihilist]

The map shouldn't allow the Allies to win before the tank has blown the depot doors without the aid of a covert in uniform (or a daft Axis player opening the door).

Why not?

Maps have multiple paths to the objectives for a reason. If the Allies are getting hammered to the point of not being able to make progress, and the Axis have moved forward away from the Depot to keep it that way, why should a lone engineer be not able to preform his task.

This argument makes as much sense as "the guns should not be able to be blown before the Old City wall has been breached". It is known, that the physics which allow you to achieve these things are built into the game, and therefore you know when, where and how these jumps will be preformed and the counter measures to prevent them.

[ReyalP]

Beyond that, three people can stack into the depot via the guard hut, with normal jumping. With pushing enabled (normal strength), one person can launch another over the side wall, with just a little barbed wire damage.

Theres a two man stack that works without shoving too

So, you have to be aware if people are making it in, and fall back if they are. They are very easy to defend against, since people trying to do them are quite vulnerable.

/me doesn't see the problem.

[Threshold]

nihilist is right. YOu know how many time I jump on a Pub server and axis are holding down Allies.

If you slip though and cause a Diversion and even if you don't make it thought to the Fuel dump more axis will cover the Tunnel making it easier for the tank.

Have the Possibility of doing that makes the Axis break up their D.

[gotenks]

the tank thing is an old bug... it'll either not move, or float across... the one that gets me though is how just a twist with pliers on a damaged bridge renders dyno useless on it... explain:
dyno blows bridge after it's built... engie starts repairing bridge but is killed... another dyno is planted... an engineer comes up turns the repair 1 twist, the bridge will not blow up when the dyno goes off

[thanny]

the tank thing is an old bug... it'll either not move, or float across...

In etmain, it doesn't move with planted dynamite. Only in etpro does it move regardless, which gives you the hovering tank.

the one that gets me though is how just a twist with pliers on a damaged bridge renders dyno useless on it... explain:
dyno blows bridge after it's built... engie starts repairing bridge but is killed... another dyno is planted... an engineer comes up turns the repair 1 twist, the bridge will not blow up when the dyno goes off

Well, it's really just a matter of an under-construction object not being destructable. It just so happens that the construction has a lifetime of 30 seconds, just like a dynamite plant, so any construction progress after a plant will make the dynamite useless.

The bigger problem there is that if the bridge is built or reinforced, planted dynamite simply disappears.

I do agree, if that's what you're getting at, that dynamite should reset construction in progress to zero. Likewise, dynamite shouldn't disappear when construction is complete, but go off normally.

[thanny]

wall has been breached". It is known, that the physics which allow you to achieve these things are built into the game, and therefore you know when, where and how these jumps will be preformed and the counter measures to prevent them.

I guess you either never played the test version, or didn't notice that one of the explicit changes in the first non-test release was modifying the side wall to prevent stacking in.

The map was designed to prevent that, so getting in outside that design definitely qualifies as an exploit, just like stacking outside to plant dynamite at the tank guns on Oasis (which seems to be "illegal" on most servers and in most competitions).

Like most exploits, however, there are plenty of people who will defend its usage, often with the same odd circular reasoning you use above - it can be done, so it was intended to be done. But as I pointed out, it wasn't intended.

[gotenks]

it wasn't intended, but if they intended to block them they'd have made it 10 feet taller... people learn to work arround any given obstical... i believe they knew at some point someone would figure it out... and they didn't care

[bani]

the tank thing is an old bug... it'll either not move, or float across...

In etmain, it doesn't move with planted dynamite. Only in etpro does it move regardless, which gives you the hovering tank.

it's most definitely an etmain bug.

http://www.planetwolfenstein.com/images ... ?id=425347

[next_ghost]

Don't forget that Splash Damage confirmed that some trickjumps (like Oasis wall jump) are intentional. If u don't like them, play a league that requires completion of all goals (both wall and guns destroyed on oasis etc.) or put up with it.

[bani]

i talked to SD about this a while ago.

from memory:

none of the common trickjumps (eg oasis wall) were intended.

the only 'trick' SD ever confirmed to me as intentional was the double stack plant behind the oasis guns. and thats banned in competition, go figure

[next_ghost]

But AFAIK they confirmed that the small part of wall behind health/ammo boxes that allows walljump on Oasis is there intentionally.

[Skylined]

I think that this is what makes ET different from other games.

You can be killing all the allies at their spawn, calling arty, mortaring, panzering, MGing, etc, but if one of them escapes, the game is over.
This is what I like about ET, it's not a frag based game, if only 1 person escapes you're doomed, and there is were teamplay comes into the game, everybody has to keep an eye on something.

Many times I've been alone at the base defending it, many times I got lone engys, covops with an engy and also 3 or 4 people trying to stack to jump the base's wall while on the other side of the map the allies seemed to be doomed, beign spawn killed, while we were going to be doomed by those I killed.

[SnowWhite]

I think that this is what makes ET different from other games.

You can be killing all the allies at their spawn, calling arty, mortaring, panzering, MGing, etc, but if one of them escapes, the game is over.
This is what I like about ET, it's not a frag based game, if only 1 person escapes you're doomed, and there is were teamplay comes into the game, everybody has to keep an eye on something.

Many times I've been alone at the base defending it, many times I got lone engys, covops with an engy and also 3 or 4 people trying to stack to jump the base's wall while on the other side of the map the allies seemed to be doomed, beign spawn killed, while we were going to be doomed by those I killed.

Yes, so you could say that by falling back to defend your base, you doomed those, who were going to doom your team, although it seemed like they were already doomed in their spawn by your would-be-doomed team.

[next_ghost]

Sorry for off-topic but somebody plays Doom 3 too much here