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NOYB
Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 12
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 Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| ouroboro wrote: | rofl. don't listen to em bani.
for crying out loud, will you people stop crying for dropweapon already? i bet it's the most discussed topic on these forums yet it's the least important. gg |
For something that's "most discussed" I hadn't seen a reasonable explanation as to why it wasn't implemented.
I'm not busting Bani's balls (alliteration!) over this. He's a big boy. I believe he can handle himself without a ton of "omg bani don't listen, you're my hero" posts.
I'm sure Bani has his reasons for doing what he does. I honestly don't know how difficult it would be to make something like +dropweapon work "properly." If it truly is something not worth the effort. Then, I guess that's just too bad.
Frankly, I think ETPro has progressed nicely. Just because I disagree with some of Bani's decisions, doesn't mean I don't appreciate his work. One doesn't need to be a sycophant to express gratitude. That being said. Thank You, Bani and the rest of the ETPro team. |
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EagleReloaded
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 278
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| NOYB wrote: | | Frankly, I think ETPro has progressed nicely. Just because I disagree with some of Bani's decisions, doesn't mean I don't appreciate his work. One doesn't need to be a sycophant to express gratitude. That being said. Thank You, Bani and the rest of the ETPro team. |
Probably the best sentiment expressed so far.
I don't get why people want +dropweapon, and I can't recall many discussions on the subject, can someone point me at them? I don't get why you'd want to drop your weapon without being able to pick up another one, unless you're trying to exploit charge times say, in which case you could /kill.
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gotenks
Joined: 15 Nov 2002
Posts: 4040
Location: out of my mind
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 3:15 am Post subject: |
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a good drop weapon won't let you cancel/affect charge times, but it is easier to drop a panzer and back over an smg (while maintaining view on an enemy), also if you're an engineer and you want to give your smg to a medic that's out of ammo (while you plant dyno) you can do this with dropweapon
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sgone:red.
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 3:35 am Post subject: |
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Aye, defintely agree with gotenks, would be a nice option idd.
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squadjot
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Posts: 377
Location: Somewhere in Valby
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 5:07 am Post subject: |
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well, from MY akward point of view..
1. is dropweapon a feature "needed" for competition?
- Dropweapon is not "needed" for competition
we can all have fine competition wars without dropweapon
2. Will Dropweapon change gameplay
- Yes, drop weaponwill change gameplay ,
in what degree can be discussed.
3. Is dropweapon suited for Enemy territory at all?
- Well..a soldier..throwing his weapon to the ground..
that seems pretty possible me.
my conclusion : i would have no problem with dropweapon
note: thats offcourse if it has no negative effect on the bugside...ofc.
..now do i put b_hitsounds in my little formular..i get a ringing "NO!" ^^
Last edited by squadjot on Sat May 14, 2005 9:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Imbroglio
Joined: 02 Sep 2002
Posts: 416
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 8:40 am Post subject: |
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so now when a lvl 4 allied panzer drops his panzer and goes to pick up another thompson, does the thompson register as ammo for his other thompson or does this thompson now sit in the existing panzer weapon bank. what about if he picks up a mp40, he now has the selection of two smgs? imo that seems like the biggest hindering on why +dropweapon was not incorporated in the original release. plus all the bugs that then come along with +dropweapon as bani stated. and what are the benefits of having this, aside from the panzer? so you can switch weapons quicker and still keep sight of the enemy, well that should tell you something right there, maybe you need to work on your panzer skills because after you fire off your nubtube you shouldn't have to worry about enemy players still standing 
as for the giving of ammo, in ET, the only ammo you get is the ammo still sitting in the actual gun, if you have a mp40 with 30/80, and you dropweapon you are only giving 30bullets, not the entire 110. seems like it'd be better (and possibly simpler) to have a +giveammo, where you lose exactly one clip of ammo for the medic to pick up. and what would happen to that other 80 rounds of ammo? if you picked up another mp40/thompson and you dropped one, would you still have that ammo? or would that just dissappear?
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ouroboro
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 662
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 8:59 am Post subject: |
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the key word in the dropweapon argument is "easier". "easier" and "pro" don't really go together IMO. a true "pro" can handle looking down at an SMG before he picks it up, lol.
why should everything be made easier? maybe it should be made HARDER! maybe bani should make it so you have to stop and clean the SMG you pick up off the ground, because odds are it's got some dirt in the barrel 
just drop dropweapon ffs. if it was as easy as 123 i'm sure it'd be in already. as bani said, it's a bitch to add without mucking up tons of other crap. is it so important you'd be willing to have half the game stop working as long as you could drop your panzer?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=priorities |
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gotenks
Joined: 15 Nov 2002
Posts: 4040
Location: out of my mind
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 9:21 am Post subject: |
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i want a good effective drop weapon... yes i can pick up an smg fairly easily... but drop weapon would help... noone seemed to notice my medic/engie scenario... there's no way to give your gun to someone else... eg, you need someone to cover you while you do something more important... ya see it in war movies all the time (see not a real life refrence)
bani's got his work cut out for him... the duel wield smg/hw... imho he should only beable to carry 1 smg, however i wouldn't see any problem with him carrying a thompson & mp40, as long as it wasn't at once... the canceling a panzer is another negative effect... etc.
imho this should have a b_dropweapon toggle (1=on, 0=off), but I think it will be quite bennoficial (sp).
oh and about the easy part... isn't the spawn timer built in for that type of thing?
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SickBoy
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| Imbroglio wrote: | | so now when a lvl 4 allied panzer drops his panzer and goes to pick up another thompson, does the thompson register as ammo for his other thompson or does this thompson now sit in the existing panzer weapon bank. what about if he picks up a mp40, he now has the selection of two smgs? |
This is the situation now:
Lvl 4 soldier with a thompson carries one thompson instead of 2.
Lvl 4 soldier with panzer and thompson can't switch panzer for a thompson but he can pick it up and the ammo will add up like normal (he won't get a second thompson, but he keeps the panzer)
He cannot exchange his panzer OR thompson for an mp40. Without the thompson (colt or akimbo) he can do this
Lvl 4 soldier with panzer and colt cannot exchange his colt for a thompson or mp40. You can pick 'em up but it will exchange with the panzer.
So basicly:
-you can only make switches with your primary weapon
-you can't carry 2 smg's at a time |
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ouroboro
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 662
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| gotenks wrote: | | oh and about the easy part... isn't the spawn timer built in for that type of thing? |
yes, but that was something nobody could possibly police, so etpro added it to even the playing field. i grant you spawntimers are just tools to make life easier so you don't have to actually think about remembering the time but the reason for adding it was clear and justified.
im not saying all etpro changes follow this "rule". hitsounds are completely and totally noob-friendly and have no place whatsoever in a competition mod, least of all one with "pro" in it's name. but i think bani saw there was a problem and has tried to fix it without totally removing the crutch that we're all used to at this point.
here's the priority breakdown for a competition mod, as i see it:
1) bug/exploit fixes - because fair play is essential and taking advantage of unintentional game flaws is lame
2) antilag/hit detection - again, an even playing field where skill is the deciding factor rather than favorable conditions. b_antilag & b_realhead ftw
3) anticheat - not really, but now that etpro has added it, the bar is raised. <3 etpro for this one especially
4) additions that foster competition and fair play, such as changes to map destructables, removal of grass to help poor schlubs hang in there with the rich kids, etc
5) any changes which shift the emphasis towards skill - both individual and team skill - rather than lotto (gimping of spam, for example)
anything else belongs in a "fun-mod" (shrub) which hopefully nobody will play. |
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gotenks
Joined: 15 Nov 2002
Posts: 4040
Location: out of my mind
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| ouroboro wrote: | | gotenks wrote: | | oh and about the easy part... isn't the spawn timer built in for that type of thing? |
yes, but that was something nobody could possibly police, so etpro added it to even the playing field. i grant you spawntimers are just tools to make life easier so you don't have to actually think about remembering the time but the reason for adding it was clear and justified.
im not saying all etpro changes follow this "rule". hitsounds are completely and totally noob-friendly and have no place whatsoever in a competition mod, least of all one with "pro" in it's name. but i think bani saw there was a problem and has tried to fix it without totally removing the crutch that we're all used to at this point.
here's the priority breakdown for a competition mod, as i see it:
1) bug/exploit fixes - because fair play is essential and taking advantage of unintentional game flaws is lame
2) antilag/hit detection - again, an even playing field where skill is the deciding factor rather than favorable conditions. b_antilag & b_realhead ftw
3) anticheat - not really, but now that etpro has added it, the bar is raised. <3 etpro for this one especially
4) additions that foster competition and fair play, such as changes to map destructables, removal of grass to help poor schlubs hang in there with the rich kids, etc
5) any changes which shift the emphasis towards skill - both individual and team skill - rather than lotto (gimping of spam, for example)
anything else belongs in a "fun-mod" (shrub) which hopefully nobody will play. |
iirc the biggest reason to add hitsounds was so comp. teams could practice...
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bacon
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 548
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ouroboro wrote: | | anything else belongs in a "fun-mod" (shrub) which hopefully nobody will play. |
It's really ignorant of you to believe that everybody who plays ET plays for competition. Has it not occurred to you that some people play games for fun?
People play shurb/etpub because they like it. Just as you play etpro because you like it. |
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ouroboro
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 662
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| bacon wrote: | | It's really ignorant of you to believe that everybody who plays ET plays for competition. |
nope, not everybody. just the people who opt to install etpro on there servers, and the players who seek out those servers. otherwise, they have probably chosen the wrong mod and should educate themselves. like you said, there are other choices out there...
from the front page:
| Quote: | | ET Pro is a mod specifically targeted at competition play, with features specifically designed for administration of competition servers. |
see also:
| Code: | | <TITLE>ET Pro - The Enemy Territory Competition Mod</TITLE> |
@gotenks: yes but it should have been a serverside cvar imo |
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Nail
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 425
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm, should restrict these threads to server admins and owners as they are the ones who essentially control who plays what, might keep the self-serving comments to a minimum
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ReyalP
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Posts: 1663
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| ouroboro wrote: |
nope, not everybody. just the people who opt to install etpro on there servers, and the players who seek out those servers. otherwise, they have probably chosen the wrong mod and should educate themselves. like you said, there are other choices out there...
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But the fact is, a thriving comp community benefits from having a thriving pub community. In general, people want to pub the same game they play in comp. So useful pub features most certainly do have a place.
And really, all this talk of what the etpro team 'should' do ignores the fact it is an all volunteer team. It is unreasonable to expect that people doing something for free, on their own time, wouldn't want to exercise some control over what they work on.
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