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Der Kammisar
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Post by Der Kammisar »

I'm sure the XP argument can go on for days. :twisted:

That's just one of the things that I'm interested in hearing about tho. To understand, read this: http://swatclan.dukechansey.net/viewtopic.php?t=1102

Here's my biggest question right now. In ET, why have the Field Ops class? It's unneeded as there are huge caches of ammo lying about, plus you can pick up any stray SMG guns you see lying about on the ground.
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Post by bani »

airstrikes, artillery.
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Post by =SWAT=Kenny »

Ph0g this is where the whole xp arguement for the system falls apart.

last night i was allies on radars. 9 members on each team. i was a sol. with a pf. my actions thru this relatively short 2 min map. and all xp was reset to 0

naded axis player at flag and captured flag.
panzered axis and mg at side door. gibbed him and destroyed that gun.
got east radar parts.
returned parts to truck.
i didnt die once.

MY reward....13 xp...what a crock of bullshit.

out of 9 players on my team i was like 6 on the xp list and i did 50% of the work in the 2 min to win the match. now the meds who didnt revive me once and the eng who blew one door and didnt return the radar part recd. more xp then myself. again complete and utter bullshit. the xp system has to be rethought.

building a command post and blowing a door is nice but the guy who goes into enemy territory to risk his life to steal the parts should get a lot more credit then flunkies planting mines and throwing airstrikes.

if the meds only had sidearms then i think the medic subsystem would be appropriate because medics would revive and support instead of rambo medic, grab docs and run to truck throwing med packs all the way.
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Post by =SWAT=Kenny »

another xp system joke.

i was axis on railgun with pf.

i jumped on tug. killed 1 axis on way to switch. axis raised switch. i brought tug to depot loaded it and got flag. killed another allied soldier and moved the tug to the 2nd tug and then moved 2nd tug to rail gun and i fired rail gun and got a whopping 15xp. complete bullshit. ofcourse everyone else got more xp then i did. btw all this was done in under 3 min. again.

sweet system reward the idiots and not the people that complete the objecitves.
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Sexy|Beast
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Post by Sexy|Beast »

Der Kammisar wrote:Here's my biggest question right now. In ET, why have the Field Ops class? It's unneeded as there are huge caches of ammo lying about, plus you can pick up any stray SMG guns you see lying about on the ground.
Der, besides air/artillery, it is the same as Wolf. People need ammo all the time. Running all the way back to an ammo dump is not always a viable solution, and often the ammo is gone when you get there. You need it right away, in the heat of battle. Just as a medic throws packs after/during a firefight, so does the FO.

But you knew this already. Sounds like you think the ammo dumps are excessive. Who said having a steady supply of ammo is a bad thing? Plus, on maps like Fueldump where only Allies get an ammo dump, who do you think steals half of that ammo? Yes, the Axis gets ammo too. :P
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Imbroglio
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Post by Imbroglio »

alright, i see what you are saying about the railgun map, today i did ALL the work and i mean all, after the initial spawn i immediately jumped on the first tug and traveled to the bar, i killed 3 allies with some help and then proceeded to load the ammo, i then traveled back killing another on the way, while a teammate raised the bar for me, i made it all the way back to the original spawn where i killed 2 more allies as the ammo was swapping tugs, i hopped on the 2nd tug and brought the ammo to the railgun where it was loaded, i killed the guy hiding atop the ladder and fired the railgun..... so lets see, didn't die once, killed 6 ppl and fired the railgun for a total of 32XP, while ppl on my team that were spamming air strikes near the allied spawn had 60+XP, i think i ended in 3rd, so i do see your point, its not so much that it has to be altered, but 3XP for a single kill is quite a bit, if you got more XP for task specific roles instead, maybe it would be more balanced... but on the other hand, what is a task specific role of a soldier, aside from killing ppl (well blowing up trucks or tanks, but other classes can do that also), this would require some thought

and one more thing i would like to add, i joined a campaign from the beginning today, to see if i would be able to make it to the highest ranking level of a medic, a COLONEL, or even a MAJOR would have been nice, something aside from the CAPTAIN rank i am constantly stuck at, being a medic and getting to level 4 in first aid is quite difficult, i knew it would be, so everytime my charge filled i would spawn medic packs so that others would pick them up, so i could move up in rank, also i even tried to revived every single person that i could, and believe it or not, i was 21xp away from level 4 medic, and then i started questioning if it was even possible, i'm sure others have done it, and i would like to see a screenshot of the gold leaf for MAJOR and the eagle for COLONEL, maybe it was the team i was on, but that is quite the task to attempt to accomplish :o
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Imbroglio
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Post by Imbroglio »

and to your thoughts about the amount of XP given to the player that wins in a LMS, last man standing match, here is the answer that ET gives,
LMS (Last Man Standing) - No objectives, no XP, no skills.
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Post by Ph0g »

Kenny I don't disagree that the current XP reward system is out of whack, mostly relevant to the lack of reward for people running objectives.

I agree with you on that, but I was just pointing out that the argument of "People shouldn't be rewarded for what they are supposed to do" is invalid.

I think objectives should be worth much much more, but each time you do the same objective the reward should gradually fall, to keep people from XP-whoring off of them.

Kenny medics would be the most underpowered class in the game by a land-slide if all they were there for was to heal their teammates and revive their allies. In ET and RTCW, the medic's primary purpose is to serve as a soldier, and they are expected to heal and revive whenever possible. That is just how it goes and was intended to go.

Kenny many idiots are too busy being uber as medics that they pass up reviving and healing, it pisses me off too. But this is not unique to medics, all classes have the same problem. I.E., panzers that fire at the first person they see, lieutenants that just airstrike the shit out of everything, engineers that sit there breaking and repairing MGs, covert ops that have no interest in devising an attack plan.

I as a medic rack a shitload of kills each run. I am no liar, I play medic for one reason and one reason only, they live longer. But this doesn't stop me from being the most effective "healer" i can be. I revive every fallsen soldier I see, and I check every player I pass for low health. Being an uber killer does not in the least get in the way of being the best you can at healing your teammates. The problem is that some people just don't play the class right, but as I said that goes for all classes.

So Kenny, yes the XP system definitely needs tweaking, and no medics should not just have a sidearm, because if they did you would never see the class in use...ever again.
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Post by =SWAT=Kenny »

Ph0g wrote:Kenny medics would be the most underpowered class in the game by a land-slide if all they were there for was to heal their teammates and revive their allies. In ET and RTCW, the medic's primary purpose is to serve as a soldier, and they are expected to heal and revive whenever possible. That is just how it goes and was intended to go.
i dont think so. maybe if you played with a 45 recharge time you might see it different. at 45sec u get a pack every 11.5 sec so uber medic is out of the question. if meds were meant to be soldiers in rtcw then default recharge time would be a lot lower. however ET fux all that up with the high speed recharge which now makes it impossible to kill a med that is running with the obj. which means it is a crock of shit and it is overbalanced.
Ph0g wrote: ...and no medics should not just have a sidearm, because if they did you would never see the class in use...ever again.
i totally disagree with you here. i agree with you on some other items but not this. meds were never meant to be uber soldiers. however with the onset of the xp rewards system it is complete and utter bullshit to see "major" medics that cant be killed and can waste you because their spread is so tight.

i know you love med because you last longer however i would bet my amg mercedes that the developers never intended the medics to be uber in RTCW. however ET has now allowed medics to be uber.

i am working on an ET server now that will balance everything if it is possible. we will boot for afks and kick worthless xp point whores that dont help the team. voting will be off just like the =swat= server now and i will see if passwording the server protects the =swat= regs from all the jackass noobs out there.
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Post by Ph0g »

Medics most useful contribution is their firepower, healing is secondary,but that doesn't mean you can't put full effort into both. Not to mention the fact that no one is gonna play the class if all it did was heal.

Kenny you say meds are uber soldiers, but the truth is all of the classes are equally uber, just not in the most apparent way in which medics are. Medics are without a doubt the most uber fighters in the game maxed out. However, all of the other classes are equally uber in different aspects.

First of all, weapon bonuses and battle sense bonuses are the exactly the same for all 5 classes, so you can't take that into consideration when arguing that medics are too uber.

A maxed out engineer does not take any splash damage *at all*. This is an incredible advantage, it means that if you wanna kill a maxed out engineer you are gonna have to do it with a straight up gun. Not to mention the extreme amount of explosives they have. So in a gun fight his uberness may not be as obvious, but it is definitely there.

A maxed out lieutenant is the equal of a maxed out medic in many ways. They never run out of ammo, they can spam airstrikes and artillery very fast, and covert ops do not fool them.

A maxed out covert ops...in my opinion covert ops are underpowered to begin with :). But they don't ever lose their disguise until they die once it's on, and that IS one helluva advantage, now if only they could pick up normal SMGs :D.

A maxed out soldier can carry TWO primary weapons, I think that speaks for itself. They can run around ripping crap up with one weapon, and then when a pesky medic pops out he can just rip out the panzerfraust :D.

Kenny, all of the classes become uber, but a medic's uberness just becomes more apparent on the battle-field. Another factor is the fact that really good players generally go for medic. Not to say that there is a short supply of shitty medic players...

But when it comes to duels, medics *will* win if you are not significantly more skilled, or lucky, than them. That is just a fact to accept. You either deal with it, or join the dark side :).

I would agree with you that they do heal a bit too rapidly in ET. However, the medics main usefulness IS and ALWAYS will be their combat ability. Simply reviving and healing all your teammates isn't big enough of a job to occupy an entire class, I don't see engineers or lieutenants sacrificing their combat ability for their secondaries.
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Post by =SWAT=Kenny »

ph0g i think you leave reality out of your points. fact is it is 10x easier to get maxed out as a med then any other class. sure the other classes have their advantages but none of them heal themselves.

i think you are taking this way to personal and defending your choice to ALWAYS be a med. my arguement is with the system. it is a peice of shit. it doesnt reward evenly or fairly. if fucks up gameplay and punishes those who dont start at the beggining of the campaign cycle. and to be honest to wait 25 min if they are on the last map of the campain is a crapload of time to get your ass handed to you.

i have played when the other team has players that have 1000xp and i have 50. it takes every aspect of FUN out of the game. that is why ET will fail over time. if gamers find it boring or lacking in fun hour upon hour they will drop it. look at SOF2 even marko now refuses to map for it.
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Post by Ph0g »

That is a post I can agree on. The XP rewards system is out of whack, and it does reward improperly. But the skills, benefits, and idea of the system is fine.

As for reality, medics rule so I play them :D. Why complain when you can just join the dark side instead? :twisted:

But heres the flip-side kenny. The only way for medics to max out is to do ALOT of reviving and healing, so it does benefit their team, alot. Not to mention I found that I can actually rack up experience faster as a field ops than as a med just by artillery-spamming the objective/congested areas.
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Post by =SWAT=Kenny »

Ph0g wrote: But heres the flip-side kenny. The only way for medics to max out is to do ALOT of reviving and healing, so it does benefit their team, alot. Not to mention I found that I can actually rack up experience faster as a field ops than as a med just by artillery-spamming the objective/congested areas.
w00t spawm away. i was on a server that only allowed 1 pf. i am going to find out how to allow only 1 FO when i set up our server.

btw was on railgun again did everything necessary to win and was awarded squat in xp. we are going to run maps that will 0 the xp every round. the system is way to screwed up to allow people to have 1000xp and 10xp on the same map.
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Post by Ph0g »

Kenny there would be nothing wrong with one person having 1000 XP and another having 10 if the rewards weren't so screwed.

It totally discourages bothering with objectives and encourages spawn camping/spamming.

But the truth is that no one on ET knows what the fuck they are doing anyways so it doesn't make much difference. Just go medic and pump them all full of led for a good 'ol time :).
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Post by Ph0g »

Kenny I just realized something. It doesn't reward for objectives because there isn't a skill category for that, lol. How could it possibly reward you for running objectives?
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