Cov-op balancing (dummy weapons, poison knife)

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Svartberg
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Cov-op balancing (dummy weapons, poison knife)

Post by Svartberg »

I play a lot in organized games with a lot of experienced players, and everyone knows how easy it is to spot a covert, and how it is imbalanced.

- What i thought of was a server flag (can be disabled) which allows cov-ops to pickup weapons of the same class as their suit, accessible via weapon slot 4, and use them as dummy weapon. (simply put, they cannot fire them, as if there is no ammo).
This is simply for the use of fooling.

- Another suggestion is to give cov-op level 4 a poisoned knife. (kill in one strike, instead of the useless assassin skill, which does 200 damage instead of 100 only on backstab)

Yes, i know cov-ops aren't used in clan games, but they are part of the game, and i believe they have rather noticable weaknesses which makes the game suffer from the lack of versatalliaty with an additional class.

P.S. - Thanks Bani for the fix of the uniform cov-op name bug.

Svartberg,
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gotenks
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Post by gotenks »

just a question are you saying to get rid of the 1stab backstab kill? cause i find that usefull... i killed 3 guys (1 med, feeding a soldier medpacks, 1 lt, and the soldier) using the back stab... However a dummy gun wouldn't be a bad addition
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Post by Svartberg »

of course not, the backstab is an integral part of the game, and it's something i think is very nice in ET.

i was only reffering to the cov-op level 4 skill, giving him a more serious addon, while having respect to the original assassin skill.

i was hoping to suggest that in etpro and not bayonet, but from what i read there's no way something like those 2 suggestions will be implemented in etpro.

oh well, i hope bayonet will be in a competition level because that's the kind of games i play.
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Post by bani »

the backstab is in original rtcw as well... it's not new to ET.
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Svartberg
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Post by Svartberg »

I know it is, i played the original rtcw too. (although to a much lesser extent)

However, i was reffering to a backstab damage done from the front by level 4 cov-ops, and i didn't mean changing anything in the original backstabbing/knifing for other classes.

As you've noticed in the suggestion i try to keep the game as closer to the original etpro as i can.
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Post by spacemonkeyyy »

i like the first idea, but most of the time (lets say on public servers) the covertop gets killed after 30 seconds he stole a suit. if he doesnt get killed, the other team already can see the covertops because his nick dissapears. but on a medium-distance situation, it makes it harder to recognize the covertops. campers gets under pressure because they cannot look at the weapons anymore to see if it is an covertops.

*edit*
i guess i forgot something to say.
in competition mode, this can be really handy to sneak up at enemys. there are still many clans out there that do not have all players up in their firesquad or do not look at which player is dead. so covertops still can be used during clanwars and if this gets added they can walk safely with a fake weapon.

the covertops is the weakest class. not because of its weapons, but because of its abilities. i mean just look at how easy it is to see a player running around with the wrong weapon and to reveal he's true nature :)
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Post by Svartberg »

Good point spacemonkeyyy, thanks for the feedback.

As for the teamkilling thing, i guess i had a feature idea for some time now, and i totally forgot about it.

- Have the disguised coverts have an icon on top of their heads.
(can be taken from the numerous icons this game has, like backstab knife or satchel or the cov-op logo etc)
And since etpro has already implemented an icon feature on top of heads with people with connection problems, we know it's more than possible.

* Further more, i'm sure everyone will agree it should override that certain covert-ops request for ammo/medics, because every covert-op knows how annoying it is to get hit by teammates, and how often it happens even with experienced players. (no time to think in high pressured games)


I guess these features suggestions were aimed at something more like etpro and not bayonet, so i guess i'll need to repost it in the ETPro forum tommorow or something.
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Post by bacon »

You can already do the icon over his head. Get him in your fireteam and select him.
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Post by Svartberg »

Ok so from now on all the competition games and public matches using et pro will have everyone in one fireteam ??

Very unlikely, and even more unlikely since it is common to devide the team to several fireteams in more than 8v8 games.
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Post by gotenks »

in matches it's common to know where your teammates are all the time, voice chat, typed chat, etc... in pubs getting killed is part of the expected
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Post by Svartberg »

well sure, but it depends on the number of people, on 5v5 it's easy to know where is who, but the more people in the server the more chaotic it is, look at the warfare ladders (8v8) or any larger organized games.

even in small games, if you're in a serious game there's bound to be some kind of tension, i've seen even myself shooting at coverts because against serious players you can die in a split second.

you say it's part of the expected but that doesn't mean it's allright, it just means we've got used to this problem.
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Post by gotenks »

not sure about et designers, but this question was brought up before on banimod... it was requested to make it so the spies were seen as a member of the team they belong to by their teammates even if they were in disguise. Part of the ballance for spy is that he get's tked... i think it's the same for co
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Post by Svartberg »

But that one would be a little too far if you ask me.

If you had a chance to read my covert-op guide you'll see that the covert op class isn't balanced at all, it's the weakest in the game, his weapons aren't versatail enough, he doesn't get a helmet, lower hp, he's very easy to recognise by someone who played more than a month and the least goes on.

However, although i would want the cov-op to have less weakness (less heating for sten, etc), those things will temper what splash damage designed, and will never be implemented.

If Splash didn't want the covert ops to be recognised they wouldn't add the name with X, however they added the X to the name, it may fix some issues, but it doesn't fix stuff like rifle grenades or trigger happy shots.

FF exists in the game, and everyone will always get friendly crossfire, but the ones the cov-ops get can get a little drastic considering his already weak state.
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Post by gotenks »

i haven't noticed the weaknesses... i love playing the co, with a little change in technique you can overcome the weaknesses... sample running backwards sometimes fools the enemy. if you v60 an exlamation point appears above your head, or you can call for a medic of course the medic symbol appears above your head. There are allways tachtics arround some of these weaknesses, but these arguments are moot, as bani has to decide to add/not add it, i'm just pointing out that the weaknesses aren't all that bad
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Post by bacon »

The only area I see the covert ops being disadvantaged in is sniper headshots. A headshot from a sniper _should_ kill anybody, no matter what class they are. It's a lot harder to get a headshot than it is to get a body shot and when the enemy has medics it'll have the same results :/

On the other end: Covert Ops is not supposed to be an offensive class.
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