I was reading the et-center.com forums, and while it may not be a favorite around here, I did spot a very interesting idea for clan matches.
As it is now, there's a huge complaint about the amount of mines ingame. It's gone so far that the pubs are restricting mines down to 3 or 4 a team yet the leagues are not changing their total.
Of course, the easiest way to avoid mines is to have a covop spot them. Yet no one runs a covop, and for several reasons.
- The sniper rifle is useless on all but maybe 2 maps
- The sten's ability to overheat makes it a bad weapon for gibbing
- The satchel charge cannot blow the ramp on battery
So, what was proposed on the other forums was allowing ANYONE with binocs to spot mines. Possibly allow a cvar that would allow certain classes to spot them?
Values:
1 - covops
3 - meds
5 - fo's
7 - e's
13 - soldiers
You could then add up the values to get the selected classes that you wanted to be able to spot mines once they got binocs (my math above could be wrong, I'm just going off how osp did the autoaction stuff if I'm understanding right).
sv_minespotting 1 = default, just covops
sv_minespotting 4 = covops and meds
sv_minespotting 9 = covops, meds and fo's
sv_minespotting 20 = just soldiers and e's
sv_minespotting 29 = everyone can spot
What do you think? I believe this would be an incredibly helpful idea for matches and would allow players to keep the mines, lower the spam and still balance it out with the time it takes to spot (power bar, no moving).
Landmine spotting
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Amish z8')
- Posts: 11
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Landmine spotting
Quidditch anyone? #awo on gamesnet.
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Amish z8')
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:48 am
Could you imagine if field ops could spot mines? That would be a clever situation to be in. You would be a field op, what do you use your bar on? Ammo, ffe's, airstrikes or spotting mines? Hrmm... might be time to drop that extra med and bring in another field op for spotting/ammo while the other fo ffe's a strat spot.
This could really cut down on the med abuse in pubs too imo.
This could really cut down on the med abuse in pubs too imo.
Quidditch anyone? #awo on gamesnet.
Re: Landmine spotting
just a note it'd probably be better to use binary incrimentationAmish z8') wrote:
Values:
1 - covops
3 - meds
5 - fo's
7 - e's
13 - soldiers
sv_minespotting 1 = default, just covops
sv_minespotting 4 = covops and meds
sv_minespotting 9 = covops, meds and fo's
sv_minespotting 20 = just soldiers and e's
sv_minespotting 29 = everyone can spot
Values:
1 - covops
2 - meds
4 - fo's
8 - e's
16 - soldiers
sv_minespotting 1 = default, just covops
sv_minespotting 3 = covops and meds
sv_minespotting 7 = covops, meds and fo's
sv_minespotting 20 = just soldiers and e's
sv_minespotting 31 = everyone can spot
"Coverts are useless, nobody uses them"
"Mines need to be limited, because you need a covert to spot them"
I've seen a number of other circular arguments like this against coverts and satchel objectives...
If coverts are truely useless (and I do agree they are pretty weak), then wouldn't it be better to make them a bit stronger, rather than eliminating the need for the class completely ? How about giving them the option of a normal SMG ?
It doesn't currently require charge bar to spot mines, does it ? (I play covert so rarely I'm not positive that is true, but I'm too lazy to double check right now
)
"Mines need to be limited, because you need a covert to spot them"
I've seen a number of other circular arguments like this against coverts and satchel objectives...
If coverts are truely useless (and I do agree they are pretty weak), then wouldn't it be better to make them a bit stronger, rather than eliminating the need for the class completely ? How about giving them the option of a normal SMG ?
It doesn't currently require charge bar to spot mines, does it ? (I play covert so rarely I'm not positive that is true, but I'm too lazy to double check right now
)send lawyers, guns and money
i totaly agree.. dont eliminate the covert from the game.... my ideas on how to make him more usefull..
Weapons
1. (which should be pretty easy i think
) Let him use SMG
we can all see how this would help him right...
2. let the K43/garand insta gib if it deliver the final "blow"
this would be a Nice upgrade for the Covert, since the sniper it is right now sucks cause he cant complitly kill an enemy. before a medic give him the revive. maybe just add this to headshots.. maybe upgrade the dmg of the snipers headshots..
Skills / Abilities
1. let him spot mines in a better way.. there is "many" ways to change this.. one could be.. let a lvl 1 Covert spot mines with out the bino.
let him spot em at a faster rate.
maybe do something like.. when the covert Get the enemy's outfit he "gains" there commandmap which would give him the location of all the enemy's mines... this commandmap should not update when they plant new mines. and they should not be spottet.. they should only be spottet on the coverts own commandmap... this would give the covert a clue on where to search for the mines.
when the covert spot a mine then reduce the dmg of that mine. maybe totalt remove it.
For this to work then you would need to remove the Grande "bug" with mines.. the one that let you explode your own mines if an enemy covert spot em.
Finaly... i dont know if all the change i made up is fair... and i dont know if you should add all of them.. maybe add some of them to some of the covert lvls.. since his skills sucks pretty much anyway..
TeT//IVAN!
Weapons
1. (which should be pretty easy i think
) Let him use SMGwe can all see how this would help him right...
2. let the K43/garand insta gib if it deliver the final "blow"
this would be a Nice upgrade for the Covert, since the sniper it is right now sucks cause he cant complitly kill an enemy. before a medic give him the revive. maybe just add this to headshots.. maybe upgrade the dmg of the snipers headshots..
Skills / Abilities
1. let him spot mines in a better way.. there is "many" ways to change this.. one could be.. let a lvl 1 Covert spot mines with out the bino.
let him spot em at a faster rate.
maybe do something like.. when the covert Get the enemy's outfit he "gains" there commandmap which would give him the location of all the enemy's mines... this commandmap should not update when they plant new mines. and they should not be spottet.. they should only be spottet on the coverts own commandmap... this would give the covert a clue on where to search for the mines.
when the covert spot a mine then reduce the dmg of that mine. maybe totalt remove it.
For this to work then you would need to remove the Grande "bug" with mines.. the one that let you explode your own mines if an enemy covert spot em.
Finaly... i dont know if all the change i made up is fair... and i dont know if you should add all of them.. maybe add some of them to some of the covert lvls.. since his skills sucks pretty much anyway..
TeT//IVAN!
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/*Demoman*/
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:20 pm
wow ok I see you are posting this subject everywhere.. so I'll put down what I said at et-center.com and twl forums
I know shrubs version contains the ability for all classes to spot mines with no charge being lost.. the bar doesnt go down when the covops spots them.. why should the fieldops?
for competion purposes I can see why this feature would be a nice addition because not many people use covops... however because med, soldier, and eng dont get their binos until level 1 battle sense it would leave just the Fieldops job at the beginning
if you are going to do this why dont you just get rid of mines all together for the competions? changing the whole point of having that one job for one class kinda destroys the class... might as well either eliminate the covops class all together and give the weapons to the soldier class... or give the covops better weapons that would be better suited for competion purposes
ie sten that works like a mp40/thompson
lessen the spread of the fg42 and add 10 more rounds
sniperrifle with 80 hit damage while scoped (rtcw hit damage)
personally I would like to see the weapons changed rather than give the ability to spot mines to other classes
on some maps the use of a covops would be good if they had better weapons
would certainly make the class more desirable rather than worthless in competions
I know shrubs version contains the ability for all classes to spot mines with no charge being lost.. the bar doesnt go down when the covops spots them.. why should the fieldops?
for competion purposes I can see why this feature would be a nice addition because not many people use covops... however because med, soldier, and eng dont get their binos until level 1 battle sense it would leave just the Fieldops job at the beginning
if you are going to do this why dont you just get rid of mines all together for the competions? changing the whole point of having that one job for one class kinda destroys the class... might as well either eliminate the covops class all together and give the weapons to the soldier class... or give the covops better weapons that would be better suited for competion purposes
ie sten that works like a mp40/thompson
lessen the spread of the fg42 and add 10 more rounds
sniperrifle with 80 hit damage while scoped (rtcw hit damage)
personally I would like to see the weapons changed rather than give the ability to spot mines to other classes
on some maps the use of a covops would be good if they had better weapons
would certainly make the class more desirable rather than worthless in competions
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KingJackaL
- Posts: 666
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- Location: ChCh, NZ
- Contact:
Coverts don't get played in ALL games - but they DO get played, and more often than classes like the Flamethrower.
The most crucial trick is having a map that needs them. For example, Frostbite sees coverts in use, as does Radar. The new Fuel Dump with a forward spawn command post ( like Frostbite ) should also see extensive use of covert ops.
If anything would make clans use coverts, it'd be as SCDS_reyalP alluded - by actually balancing the covert class. Giving them the ability to use Mp40/Thompson, or allowing them to spot mines instantly (rather than having to hold their binoc's over the mine), etc.
Giving everyone the covert abilities is stupid. It really does completely kill the covert the class - and a drop from 5 to 4 classes is a HUGE shift in gameplay. I think it'd be a shame to lose the covert - currently that 5th class provides some great strat options for teams on the maps mentioned above.
The most crucial trick is having a map that needs them. For example, Frostbite sees coverts in use, as does Radar. The new Fuel Dump with a forward spawn command post ( like Frostbite ) should also see extensive use of covert ops.
If anything would make clans use coverts, it'd be as SCDS_reyalP alluded - by actually balancing the covert class. Giving them the ability to use Mp40/Thompson, or allowing them to spot mines instantly (rather than having to hold their binoc's over the mine), etc.
Giving everyone the covert abilities is stupid. It really does completely kill the covert the class - and a drop from 5 to 4 classes is a HUGE shift in gameplay. I think it'd be a shame to lose the covert - currently that 5th class provides some great strat options for teams on the maps mentioned above.
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/*Demoman*/
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- Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:20 pm
I dont think giving them the ability to use a MP40 or Thompson is the answer
with no one being level 4 FO it would be hard to identify a spy... unless they are using the fire team identifiers that get plastered over their fire teammates noggins... you'd be surprised how many people dont use that feature
the point is no one want to play hide and seek with spies who cant be detected unless they fire a non-silent weapon
just make them more combat ready
make the sten a working equivalent to the other smg's with no overheating
the FG42 spread smaller with 30 round clip
and add the power back in the sniper rifle (80 Hit Damage)
with the use of taking uniforms, satchels, smoke and mine detection
they would end up being a more useful class
with no one being level 4 FO it would be hard to identify a spy... unless they are using the fire team identifiers that get plastered over their fire teammates noggins... you'd be surprised how many people dont use that feature
the point is no one want to play hide and seek with spies who cant be detected unless they fire a non-silent weapon
just make them more combat ready
make the sten a working equivalent to the other smg's with no overheating
the FG42 spread smaller with 30 round clip
and add the power back in the sniper rifle (80 Hit Damage)
with the use of taking uniforms, satchels, smoke and mine detection
they would end up being a more useful class
For match play (the subject of this whole discussion), disguise is nearly 100% useless anyway, because everyone is in voice coms, and on the same FT. Giving them an SMG would only make disguise slightly more effective./*Demoman*/ wrote:I dont think giving them the ability to use a MP40 or Thompson is the answer
with no one being level 4 FO it would be hard to identify a spy... unless they are using the fire team identifiers that get plastered over their fire teammates noggins... you'd be surprised how many people dont use that feature
I do agree that making their normal weapons a bit more effective is also a valid option.
send lawyers, guns and money
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/*Demoman*/
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ah yea forgot about commsSCDS_reyalP wrote:For match play (the subject of this whole discussion), disguise is nearly 100% useless anyway, because everyone is in voice coms, and on the same FT. Giving them an SMG would only make disguise slightly more effective.
I do agree that making their normal weapons a bit more effective is also a valid option.
maybe this might be a viable option allowing them to use the mp40 and thompson... but I think as a pickup weapon not as a starting one
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Ragnar_40k
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- Location: Berlin, birthplace of the Döner
- Contact:
The real problem in the competition use of covert opses is, that once the enemy spots the covert, they instantly know the mines have been spotted. Throw a little nade at your mines, plant some new ones, and you've coped with the problem. Perhaps making mines invonerable for "team" damage could do the trick. This will influence the gameplay less then giving the coverts other weapons or something like that. Enemy engy's can still move mines, but they will have to defuse them(or suffer the concequences of walking over them), without knowing if the mine had actually been spotted. Would give some intersting effect if you run around in a covert suit, not spotting a thing, but just luring the enemy engy's out of their hiding place to re-plant all their mines. Could give you some nice hint's about the location of the mines too. That might be a better idea IMHO.
why not totally disable landmines all together? it would have the same effect.
usually landmines are in very predictable spots anyway, so giving the ability to spot them makes it that much more useless to even plant landmines which have i don't know how many times saved the team.
this is already a feature available in shrub btw
usually landmines are in very predictable spots anyway, so giving the ability to spot them makes it that much more useless to even plant landmines which have i don't know how many times saved the team.
this is already a feature available in shrub btw
"Common sense isn't very common."