Spawn timer support

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Leviathan
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Spawn timer support

Post by Leviathan »

Muh !

I got a question, and i hope you can help me to resolve my problem.

Spawn times are a matter ot the game as shooting or camping is. Guess, everyone agrees with me here.

Also, every good player / clan trained in a map and seriously playing in some form of leage is familiar with the spawning system, the spawn time and can preview the enemy spawn quite good after seeing it once. Again, nothing special.

Then the Heron spawntimer came up, some nice piece of software, but most clans dont like it, cause the advantage is called unfair! And most leages dont allow the tool.

Here the first gamer start to argue: "What is the difference between a clock i put next to my screen and this tool? I announce the enemy spawn in Ts so or so. (German experssion, dont know if it is same in english)"

Hmm... ok, so no spawn timers. Of course they are seen in every demo, so easy to proove. But wait! What, if the timer announce it as sound sample and not in ET itself ??? No one would find out, and spawn timers would be easy to code...

On the other hand, timing the spawn is a tactic every good clan can do without external tools. And here comes the fun part:

Bani argues, ET matches are to defensive. Half of the matches are full holds, even when the strengh of two clans are just a bit different. So, here is my idea to make it more easy for the offensive and maybe the weaker clans to play with the tactic of the "pwing" ones (dont even know what the word mean, btw...)

If bani can code some adiitional timer next to the respanw clock, starting with 00 and automaticaly set to the enemy respawn maximum time, every clan can use spawn related tactics. Of course, the counter will start only by activating of a player (teammate) who saw the enemy spawn. But then, no settings have to be made, just press a button and everyone in your team can see the enemy respawn clock (if your teammate dont press the button to the wrong time, 4 sure).

Now many clans will shout : "No! This make spawncamping even more easy and lame the game up!" Yes and no. I will make spawn realtet tactics (and so spawn camping) more easy for the attacking team, cause the defenders normally dont tend to fight next to the attacking spawn. Also, on most maps the attacker has more locations to spawn in, so he can evade spawncamping more easy. And, of course, the defender dont need to evade the enemy spawn to get past it.

Other players will shout: "This will rip pub gameplay!" Maybe it will. But we think about competition play here.

To sum the effects up: weaker clans can play spawn relatet tactics more easily, evading the enemy spawn will be easy, once seen. Also, no superiour advantage is gained in any way. Spawn camping will increase, but only in areas where it is not used much bevore (weaker clans) cause spawn camping is an elemental part ot the game (and it is war ;) ) as you surely agree with me.

your opinions, please.
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bani
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Post by bani »

the real solutions to this problem are:

1) more spawnpoints
2) randomized spawntimes

for 2) the spawntimes would be randomized like so: each team has the same spawn cycle time as normal (20sec, 30sec, etc) but it starts at a random time after the team spawns. so opposing team can't use a spawntimer, thus making any spawntimers worthless. no need to ban something which wont work 8)
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Deus
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Re: Spawn timer support

Post by Deus »

Leviathan wrote:I announce the enemy spawn in Ts so or so. (German experssion, dont know if it is same in english)
I announce the enemy spawn in Teamspeak anyways (this fits best what you want to say)
Leviathan wrote:"pwing" .. (dont even know what the word mean, btw...)
It is pronounced pwning and has its origin in owning (beherrschen / besitzen in german) where 1337-pl4¥0rz replace the o with a p because they are so 1337 !!!!1111
Leviathan wrote:your opinions, please.
I think this is some "If you can't get rid of a problem make it work for you" and i do not like the idea of an included spawntimer.
bani wrote:the real solutions to this problem are:

1) more spawnpoints
2) randomized spawntimes

for 2) the spawntimes would be randomized like so: each team has the same spawn cycle time as normal (20sec, 30sec, etc) but it starts at a random time after the team spawns. so opposing team can't use a spawntimer, thus making any spawntimers worthless. no need to ban something which wont work 8)
Why not make it +/- 5 seconds and use a randomized value, so there is a range for a 20 secs respawn of 15 to 25
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MeeZ
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Post by MeeZ »

I think it will be a big change in gameplay, and remove all the fun of spawnarty \o/

I use utimer, made by unblind. Just hit PGUP/PGDN for enemy spawn cycle time, then two numbers on my numpad, (when they spawn), then just hit END every now and then to give them the spawntime's.
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KingJackaL
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Post by KingJackaL »

My league allows spawn timers >_>

But then I'm a realist, and know how easy it would be to code a spawntimer that I couldn't detect ;). Heron actualy ADDS A CVAR so that you CAN block it - but they had to go out of their way to do so - it'd be much easier to make an undectable spawn timer :|.

Thing is, doing it in-game means it's perfectly synced and infaliable. That's a massive advantage over the in-game scripts , which require the constant attention of team members, or comms-based approaches, which require good comms communication. An in-game system could be sync'd perfectly so that the clients see it as they see the enemy actually spawning - systems outside the game are all lagged ( for example, if you've got a 200 ping to your comms server... ;) ).

Having said all that, I'd probably see an in-game spawntimer function as pretty lame, esp. in pub mode (it'd HAVE to be cvar-allowed, so I could have it OFF in public mode). Not to mention the whole why-bother-cos-there's-more-important/interesting-things-to-work-on factor.... >_>
DG
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Post by DG »

I thought there was already a random factor for the initial respawn time, it got added in rtcw OSP (where everybody saw it as a good thing).
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hiro
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Post by hiro »

heh randomize spawn times but give field-ops an enemy spawn timer for an xp level :P
kekkyoku
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Post by kekkyoku »

What happened to using the good ole brain?!
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Post by >>steven! »

if ppl cant count to 30 then they shouldnt be playing the game tbh

more spawnpoints i agree with, this is one thing i miss from RTCW (one position i do like is spawning up top on oasis that is soo funneh, and the ppl spawncamping get stabbed heh.

randomized spawn i think is an awful thing to have, as its too big a change in gameplay. the skill of timing all your attacks just on the enemies spawn time will be lost, and games will be very scrappy, and imo would only encourage more full holds, as the attacking team has lost its most usefull weapon, and that is to spawncamp the defenders.

at the end of the day, nubs will get spawncamped in a game u spawn more than once per round.

and full holds will be achieved when a defendings clan tactics r stronger than the attacking teams tactics, even if there is a difference in skill level.

tactics, teamplay and skills wins u the game in ET, having randomised spawn times, would make setting tactics very difficult, which would only widen the gap between good clans and poor clans.

i do see your point about having a built in spawn timer, as then every clan will know the enemies spawn time from the start (not just the ppl using heron), the best thing to do tho is to add a pb restriction or whatever as i think the makers of heron (clan bzz??? i think) added a cvar so it can be checked to see if heron is running. therefore just make it so if ppl have heron running get kicked.

but tbh no clan has any excuse for not knowing the enemies spawn time after a max of 2-3 minutes of a round, cos it aint hard to sneak a man thru to their spawnpoint to see what time they spawn. :P then its just a case of counting to 30 simple :P
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bani
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Post by bani »

>>steven! wrote:but tbh no clan has any excuse for not knowing the enemies spawn time after a max of 2-3 minutes of a round, cos it aint hard to sneak a man thru to their spawnpoint to see what time they spawn. :P then its just a case of counting to 30 simple :P
whats wrong with building a spawntimer into the game then?
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Post by squadjot »

bani wrote:whats wrong with building a spawntimer into the game then?
:o? ..then u could just aswell put the enemy spawntime on HUD..(just as ur own respawn time)..

i would definitely vote "no" :P

i can see ..it just turns getting spawntime into a "routine" task...and i see that it would give allied more strength..(can be used opposite way alos tho)..

but at the end of the day..it doesent suit the game imo... as a ingame feature..as it would become..
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bani
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Post by bani »

then what's wrong with randomizing spawn times?

if you have no problem with spawn timing then there's no problem with in-game spawntimer.

but if you're against spawntimers, then there's no problem with randomizing spawn times.

make up your minds! either spawntimer is acceptable or it is not.
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Threshold
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Post by Threshold »

I use a spawn timer only due to the fact 90% of other teams use it.

I agree. If you use one then you shouldn't have a issue with having the Other teams spawn right under yours on the HUD. Not every team that is starting out knows about spawn timers.

I know it took two season's for my Orginal RTCW clan to know they were even out there let alone the Cvar tweaks that people were using.

The whole point is you need to level the playing field. NO ONE in any orginized competition should have a unfair advatage. Plain and simple..

Either Ban them or let eveyone have them

IMO if your gonna put it in ET don't make it as easy as displaying below your RT make the user input something. At least have the chance for human error.
BOTA
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Post by BOTA »

Server controlled cvar so the server admin can activate or deactivate it for the server.
Being able to count and spotting spawn times is not the same as having all the work done for you.
Figuring out the spawn time is easy for some harder for others.
It allows for human error and people do not necesarily have the clarity of mind to update their in-brain counting when a command post is made or destroyed.
Allowing for more human error.
Thus it remains a task.
And therefore the work to be done for the task earns you the advantage.
Just popping it in the screen is wrong.
It takes away the task and damages the original gameplay.
Doing the task seems fair to me, having it handed to you is not.

But if it is such a much wanted feature.
Make it a toggle for yes (gimme the damn timer) or no (make me work for the knowledge).
And let League admins and public server owners choose.
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gotenks
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Post by gotenks »

bitwise variable:
b_spawntimefix <value>
1=randomized start
2=available enemy spawn timer (using b_enspawntime 1)



also, nothing changes the spawntime... command posts only change charge time NOT spawn time... attackers are allways 20 sec, defenders are allways 30 sec, unless a league or other configuration has changed them
Last edited by gotenks on Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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