Does phog owe his life to knifey?

gotenks · Post by **gotenks** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 9:31 pm

ok this is dealing with ph0g's post where he bet his life on the bug... let's vote on if he owes his life or not...

http://bani.anime.net/banimod/forums/vi ... c&start=15
click above to see the discussion

Ph0g · Post by **Ph0g** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 9:43 pm

Alright guys here is how it goes, I don't expect this to make sense to everyone as it kinda makes you think. But if you understand clearly, it IS not something you can argue.

Someone states there is an event that takes place, then they ask why did it take place?

Someone else makes a bet on the reason for the event taking place.

So the structure of the bet is this: "Event, reason for event", the actual bet is on the REASON for the event.

Then you learn that the event never actualy happened, you can't possibly bet on the reason for an event happening if it never really happened! That makes the entire bet invalid, which ultimately means no one lost the bet, and no one won the bet.

Here is how what I just said fits into what actualy took place:

Knifey wrote:hmm, poisen knives are off in 1.1.28? is that because of the bug, or did you not have them on?

He placed his question mark in the wrong place, but if you read it all he was clearly stating poison knives are off, and he wanted to know why.

Ph0g wrote:I ph0g, bet my life that the poison knives were indeed turned off as a temporary solution to the problem, i only do so out of certainty.

Here I was betting on the reason for the event knifey (my only source) told me happened. This bet was entirely based on the fact that poison knives had actualy been turned off, like knifey said they were in the first quote.

bani wrote:actually they werent turned off. when i went to fix the knife bug i accidentally made them not do enough damage to kill. should be all fixed now though.

And here, bani explains that contradictory to what knifey said, poison knives were never turned off! This means i was betting on the reason for an event happening, when they event never actualy happened in the first place. That makes the entire bet invalid, you can't bet on the reason for something happening if it never happened at all!

So, if you comprehended everythign I said above clearly, you would realize that there is no possible way to say that ANYONE won or lost this bet!

Knifey · Post by **Knifey** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 9:47 pm

No phog, a bet is a bet.

Lets say you bet on a horse, knowing that all the other horses broke their legs. Your horse loses, and the other horses really didnt break thier leg. So do you think the race track will say, "oh you're right, the bet is voided"

And besides, when i said, you must be able to bet your life on it, then you should have been willing to lose your life.

Now, give me your life!!!

gotenks · Post by **gotenks** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 9:50 pm

Ph0g wrote:Alright guys here is how it goes, I don't expect this to make sense to everyone as it kinda makes you think. But if you understand clearly, it IS not something you can argue.

Someone states there is an event that takes place, then they ask why did it take place?[/quote
he didn't say something did take place he asked if it did... he couldn't knwo what bani did
Ph0g wrote: Someone else makes a bet on the reason for the event taking place.

So the structure of the bet is this: "Event, reason for event", the actual bet is on the REASON for the event.

Then you learn that the event never actualy happened, you can't possibly bet on the reason for an event happening if it never really happened! That makes the entire bet invalid, which ultimately means no one lost the bet, and no one won the bet.

Here is how what I just said fits into what actualy took place:

Knifey wrote:hmm, poisen knives are off in 1.1.28? is that because of the bug, or did you not have them on?
He placed his question mark in the wrong place, but if you read it all he was clearly stating poison knives are off, and he wanted to know why.

Ph0g wrote:I ph0g, bet my life that the poison knives were indeed turned off as a temporary solution to the problem, i only do so out of certainty.
Here I was betting on the reason for the event knifey (my only source) told me happened. This bet was entirely based on the fact that poison knives had actualy been turned off, like knifey said they were in the first quote.

bani wrote:actually they werent turned off. when i went to fix the knife bug i accidentally made them not do enough damage to kill. should be all fixed now though.
And here, bani explains that contradictory to what knifey said, poison knives were never turned off! This means i was betting on the reason for an event happening, when they event never actualy happened in the first place. That makes the entire bet invalid, you can't bet on the reason for something happening if it never happened at all!

So, if you comprehended everythign I said above clearly, you would realize that there is no possible way to say that ANYONE won or lost this bet!
good try backing out of the bet... lmao

Ph0g · Post by **Ph0g** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 9:54 pm

Knifey, your example doesn't fit the bet structure and you can't use it.

The bet structure was "Event, reason for event"

Not "Event, result of event" as shown in your example.

So knifey...keep thinking, your almost there.

Gotenks...what I said is true, and it proves I didn't lose any bets.

Knifey wrote:hmm, poisen knives are off in 1.1.28? is that because of the bug, or did you not have them on?

Knifey, when you posted that, were you asking why knives were off?
Or were you asking IF they were turned off AND why?

Knifey · Post by **Knifey** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 9:58 pm

Ph0g wrote:Knifey, your example doesn't fit the bet structure and you can't use it.

The bet structure was "Event, reason for event"

Not "Event, result of event" as shown in your example.

So knifey...keep thinking, your almost there.

Gotenks...what I said is true, and it proves I didn't lose any bets.

Phog, you make a good point, race track was a bad example.

Here's a little better example,

Cow told you the next lotto ticket numbers are 1 2 3 4 5. i bet you that they are not 1 2 3 4 5. Even if cow is wrong, you still made the bet. So you lose, not cow.

Give me your live now!

Ph0g · Post by **Ph0g** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 11:10 pm

KNIFEY, none of those examples mean ANYTHING unless you can make them fit the structure!

the structure was this, "event, reason for event" I was betting on the reason for the event.

NONE of the examples you give me will mean ANYTHING if they don't fit that structure because if they don't they are irrelevant!

In a "event, reason for event" structured bet in which the person bets on the reason for the event, the bet becomes invalid and means nothing if the event it was based on is later proved false.

The last bet you gave me was stuctured like this:

"prediction, counter-prediction", ...infact the race track example was much closer, lol.

Ph0g wrote:
Knifey wrote:hmm, poisen knives are off in 1.1.28? is that because of the bug, or did you not have them on?
Knifey, when you posted that, were you asking why knives were off?
Or were you asking IF they were turned off AND why?

Please answer that question.

WeblionX · Post by **WeblionX** » Sun Nov 24, 2002 10:43 am

Ph0g: You bet that:
Bani turned off posion knives
Actually:
He didn't.

ZarkingFardwarks · Post by **ZarkingFardwarks** » Sun Nov 24, 2002 11:00 am

god sakes just shut up about it. phog won't admit that he lost anyway, you might all realize that at this point; this will only get out of hand and get the thread locked, so /callvote stfu the lot of you (i vote yes)

-zf

gotenks · Post by **gotenks** » Sun Nov 24, 2002 11:03 am

lmao... nice reply... phog you said his opinion would be the most unbiased... hmmm he agrees with us... lol

Knifey · Post by **Knifey** » Sun Nov 24, 2002 11:30 am

Ph0g wrote:
Knifey wrote:hmm, poisen knives are off in 1.1.28? is that because of the bug, or did you not have them on?
Knifey, when you posted that, were you asking why knives were off?
Or were you asking IF they were turned off AND why?

I ment it as if i wasnt sure if knives were turned off.

Webleeown wrote:Ph0g: You bet that:
Bani turned off posion knives
Actually:
He didn't.

it is just that simple. I dont know why i have to justify the bet with examples.

If you werent completly sure on your source, you shouldnt have bet.

Ph0g · Post by **Ph0g** » Sun Nov 24, 2002 12:12 pm

Weblion, if you had actualy read my post you would realize that I wasn't betting on whether knives were off or not at all, I had assumed from knifeys post that knives were indeed off and i was betting on the reason why. So what you said isn't true.

Zark, people are wrong, I am right, it makes me mad, and so I fight.

Knifey, I mis-interpreted your post due to your lack of grammar. Thus my entire foundation for the bet was created from a mis-understanding at both of our faults. That ALSO excuses the bet from having any meaning

To my deathbed I shall take it

Gyro Gearloose · Post by **Gyro Gearloose** » Sun Nov 24, 2002 12:26 pm

Ok, it all really boils down to this:

Do you really want HIS life? Can you imagine what that really means?

The Big Bad Cow · Post by **The Big Bad Cow** » Sun Nov 24, 2002 2:26 pm

ROFL!

IM SURE ITS NOT PRETTY!

The Ventalator · Post by **The Ventalator** » Sun Nov 24, 2002 3:01 pm

I dont know ph0g personally, and have never played with him, but i can see how he could mis-interperate the bet, please read all..

Ph0g wrote:I ph0g, bet my life that the poison knives were indeed turned off as a temporary solution to the problem, i only do so out of certainty.

now, ph0g has a point. Sense Knifey bet him that "they were turned off as a temporary solution to the problem" we can see why he is confused.

bani wrote:actually they werent turned off. when i went to fix the knife bug i accidentally made them not do enough damage to kill. should be all fixed now though.

If you take the first part, "they were turned off" and just bet on that, Knifey would be the clear winner.

However, if you take the second part "temporary solution" the bet would have been cancelled, because they would both be wrong.

But because of the 2 conflicting thoughts, Ph0g is confused.

I think this might be a good exaple that knifey is looking for, "Lets say, someone bets you that the front side of the book has blue on it and inside the blue has a red dot. If the book is all red, then the first part is wrong, but technically it does have a red circular area in the middle."

Conclusion, we have a poll.

I hope I explained it a little better than Ph0g did, but i think that is what he is trying to say.

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