Just played a tournament game with my clan, which has resulted in one of our players being kicked from the tournament and the match forfeited.
Will skip over some of the details but this game was 3 rounds of Oasis and lasted well over 2 hours. The player in question played for the whole of this time until the last 5 minutes with no warnings from either PB or ETpro, although he did crash a few times during the game. However, 5 minutes from the end of the LAST round (some 2 hours + into the game) he came back from his last crash to have "playername is CHEATING..." etc. spammed to us. Neither team questioned it too closely, since it was highly unlikely, and the admin was also of the belief it was an error.
However, as I said at the top, our player has now been kicked and the game forfeited by the organisers (http://www.unterelite.co.uk
My question (after all that) is is there any chance that the crashes upset something in memory that ETPro decided to fine offensive, and if the organisers are co-operative, could looking at the server log resolve this problem?
Naturally I find it rather hard to believe one of our players would cheat, particularly so after 2 HOURS of a game, and 5 minutes from the end.
[KK]Grizbo
ET crash causes cheater error?
Moderators: Forum moderators, developers
if it was reported as ^1CHEATER in the logs, they were definitely cheating. a logfile would let us determine which one.
if it was reported as ^3CHEATER in the logs, it's possible it was a new cheat. a logfile also would let us determine this.
until testbugfix4 possible cheaters were reported as red in hud, but yellow in console.
i wouldn't ban someone on the basis of a ^3CHEATER report without letting us look at the logs first.
if it was reported as ^3CHEATER in the logs, it's possible it was a new cheat. a logfile also would let us determine this.
until testbugfix4 possible cheaters were reported as red in hud, but yellow in console.
i wouldn't ban someone on the basis of a ^3CHEATER report without letting us look at the logs first.
The question is this,
On an etpro 3.0.1 server would you be willing to ban a person solely on the evidence of a screenshot without actually looking at any of the logs?
Given that throughout the match the player in question crashed on several occasions and only after one of these crashes did the error message start occurring?
On an etpro 3.0.1 server would you be willing to ban a person solely on the evidence of a screenshot without actually looking at any of the logs?
Given that throughout the match the player in question crashed on several occasions and only after one of these crashes did the error message start occurring?
depends on who gave me the screenshot i guess, and what it was a screenshot of.
if for example rain or zinx or fretn or others i know gave me a screenshot of a game console showing output of /cheaters saying someone was ^1CHEATER, I would likely ban.
if some random individual i've never heard from before gave me a screenshot of just the hud with a popup message saying someone was cheating, i'd ask for logs.
if for example rain or zinx or fretn or others i know gave me a screenshot of a game console showing output of /cheaters saying someone was ^1CHEATER, I would likely ban.
if some random individual i've never heard from before gave me a screenshot of just the hud with a popup message saying someone was cheating, i'd ask for logs.
ok this:
http://etcomp.markroper.net/download/kkchris.jpg
for example.
I don't doubt the /cheaters output and would love to have seen it. Put the pic above seems entirely too flmisy to accuse somebody of cheating with. ^1Cheating or not.
http://etcomp.markroper.net/download/kkchris.jpg
for example.
I don't doubt the /cheaters output and would love to have seen it. Put the pic above seems entirely too flmisy to accuse somebody of cheating with. ^1Cheating or not.
Stotty, it's dealt with, and I've already shown Bani the screenshot.
I don't agree with the "flimsy" comment however as Bani has already stated that ^1CHEATING in the console = definate know hack. However he's since qualified that by saying Fraps, Wndowsblinds and some virus' can cause false positives.
I would therefore take the view that, without the log, a screenshot is not conclusive. However, I would only take that view now in light of our subsequent investigations and Bani's responses to my PM's. I didn't take that view yesterday, hence the drama.
The bottom line is, IMO, that ETPro anti-cheat is flawed. Any violation can be disputed on the grounds that it's flawed, and as such is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard to people like me trying to run a Tournament.
I don't agree with the "flimsy" comment however as Bani has already stated that ^1CHEATING in the console = definate know hack. However he's since qualified that by saying Fraps, Wndowsblinds and some virus' can cause false positives.
I would therefore take the view that, without the log, a screenshot is not conclusive. However, I would only take that view now in light of our subsequent investigations and Bani's responses to my PM's. I didn't take that view yesterday, hence the drama.
The bottom line is, IMO, that ETPro anti-cheat is flawed. Any violation can be disputed on the grounds that it's flawed, and as such is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard to people like me trying to run a Tournament.
I know, it's sorted and i really thank you for being open-minded on the matter.
I also think there was no need for you to pull out of adminning the way you did. As has already been said, there were lessons to be learnt from how this was handled and we should move on with you still involved, things can only get better.
I was asking out of my own sheer curiosity as well though, as i have my hand in adminning several public servers that i don't always necessarily have access to the logs for and was wondering just how "foolproof" the system was.
I also think there was no need for you to pull out of adminning the way you did. As has already been said, there were lessons to be learnt from how this was handled and we should move on with you still involved, things can only get better.
I was asking out of my own sheer curiosity as well though, as i have my hand in adminning several public servers that i don't always necessarily have access to the logs for and was wondering just how "foolproof" the system was.
"Not very" seems to be the answer to that question.STOTTYD wrote:...and was wondering just how "foolproof" the system was.
Until Bani sorts the bugs in anti-cheat it's worthless IMO. For banning players from public servers it might have a use, but in a league or competiton where Admins have to be 100% certain...
Aye, well it all boils down to the logs really.
I guess in future the refs/admins will have to do a
/cheaters
in the console and take a screenie of that at the very least, should this happen again (which hopefully it won't).
But, at the end of the day we've learned something and hopefully things will be better because of it.
I guess in future the refs/admins will have to do a
/cheaters
in the console and take a screenie of that at the very least, should this happen again (which hopefully it won't).
But, at the end of the day we've learned something and hopefully things will be better because of it.
the main problem i think is that while we had few problems with the anticheat system on the beta test servers, once it got widely deployed we found out that windoze is even more a steaming pile than anyone had ever suspected. we had to put in a lot of gross workarounds in the anticheat to deal with severely braindamaged systems and applications that would do evil things and raise false positives.
fwiw even if etpro doesnt always report the cheats properly, it almost always disables them completely. one can run with the server cheat reporting disabled and still be secure in the knowledge that etpro is disabling private and public cheats.
since etpro disables cheats regardless of server settings, we may change the cheat reporting policy in the future to only report known cheats, and simply disable/log unknown ones.
fwiw even if etpro doesnt always report the cheats properly, it almost always disables them completely. one can run with the server cheat reporting disabled and still be secure in the knowledge that etpro is disabling private and public cheats.
since etpro disables cheats regardless of server settings, we may change the cheat reporting policy in the future to only report known cheats, and simply disable/log unknown ones.
