banimod / etpro / ettv forums

The point of the included spawntimer is to make things equal for all teams: most leagues forbid the use of external spawntimers, but there's no effective way to really ban them, as one often can't detect them (heron being the exception). And even if we could ban those, nothing would prevent one from configuring his watch so it would work like a spawntimer.

The spawntimer as it is implemented atm, needs you to set the timerinterval (which is a command atm, so you can't put a cvar check on it - and why would you?) and (re)start the timer at the moment the enemy spawn. It works like a chronometer which is drawn continuously on your screen, the same way as your respawn time is drawn.

This spawntimer won't have much impact, especially not as spawnkilling and knowing your enemy's spawntime is crucial for most maps when attacking, and as spawntimes in ET are pretty easy to count anyway (20/30).

well 1 question will be, will leagues that currently ban external spawn timers (given ur sig says ur a CB admin, seems to be a point to point out CB do ban them) when this new ET Pro comes to fluition, will they stay banned.
As for why you would want to prevent it, if you ban external spawn timers (detectable or not) then you should also ban the ET-Pro one.
And if its a command, you could do a bindsearch with PB and kick on it, so it is still detectable, also i was under the impression you set your own time on it, due to the fact that different maps have different spawn times (anywhere between 15 and 30 atm i belive for the standard maps) so i was under the impression it was customisable that way, and that cvar should in theory be checkable.

Either way if its in its in, im not gonna question that point, but if leagues wanna shut it down they should be able to, and if they dont, then ALL spawn timers should be allowed, as if my understanding of it is correct, the heron still carries more advantages than this spawn timer implemented in ET-Pro, and this being the case, Heron would still "imbalance" things, given the purpose of the spawn timer is indeed to balance, so people who dont know/cant use/cant count have something built in, to "level the playing field" as it were.

All i wanna see, is if its in, it should have all the features of all the other spawn timers so no1 can moan (including the ability to turn it off server side if needed)

If by the final release a massive turn around is done (not likely) and its taken out (not likely) then work should be undertaken in someway to prevent existing spawn timers, with some method or system.

I think Lake's (and Bani's) point Dae is that banning spawntimers is moot, as they can't be. The fact CB do is neither here nor there, they can't be banned so why bother.

If CB did something in response to this, i.e. banned use of the ETPro timer (assuming they had a mechanism (cvar check) to do it) Clans would just carry on using the currently undetectable unbannable timers.

If CB do nothing Clans can carry on using the undetectable unbannable timers or use the new ETPro one.

im aware they cant be banned (heron can btw) however certain suggestions have been made, i dont like random spawn times, but random in a limit (ie +/- 5) is not an unreasonable idea, it just seems hipocritical to allow a built in one, but in turn on ur rules section ban all others, all im wanting to do is clarify leagues responce on this, are they still against spawn timers (in which case on principle et-pro's should be banned) or are we as a community accepting there out there, bog all we can do, so let them use them as they see fit, in which case shouldnt rules be updated to reflect this.

daemord wrote:it just seems hipocritical to allow a built in one, but in turn on ur rules section ban all others

Perhaps they'll amend the rules then, but in practise they're not allowing one and banning others because the "others" can't be banned and are therefore "allowed" by default.

Confused? You will be?

Random spawn times, even within a +/- 5 second margin would break the whole game wouldn't it. Either the time limit within which they spawn would be too short to prevent spawncamping, or it'd be too long to enable teams to respawn together and regroup.

How much does securing the flag on Oasis rely on almost split-second timing of the flag grab?

Kendle wrote:
Random spawn times, even within a +/- 5 second margin would break the whole game wouldn't it. Either the time limit within which they spawn would be too short to prevent spawncamping, or it'd be too long to enable teams to respawn together and regroup.

How much does securing the flag on Oasis rely on almost split-second timing of the flag grab?

Dont know if it would break the game, which is why I suggested it. I'm pretty sure some clever bugger out there could work out a way to randomise s/times, in such a way that the game balance would not be effect.

Unfortunately I have trouble doing 2 things at once, breathing and sitting down is my limit.

lol they mustm ake make heron show up as CHEATER thne ppl will be use the etpro one

but i think it should be handy if you where able to share your spawntimer whit teamates

=FF=im2weak4u wrote:lol they mustm ake make heron show up as CHEATER thne ppl will be use the etpro one

but i think it should be handy if you where able to share your spawntimer whit teamates

You basicly already can, use voice comms (pass the opponents spawntime or remind your teammates to start their timer in time). I personnally see neither the need nor the advantage of such a feature.

F@TBOY wrote:Dont know if it would break the game, which is why I suggested it. I'm pretty sure some clever bugger out there could work out a way to randomise s/times, in such a way that the game balance would not be effect.

Unfortunately I have trouble doing 2 things at once, breathing and sitting down is my limit.

I'm just wondering how you would feel if due to a random spawntime being a bit long, you would lack that 2s to defuse a dynamite or stop a doc carrier, while your opponent might have a bit more luck the round after.

Lake wrote:I'm just wondering how you would feel if due to a random spawntime being a bit long, you would lack that 2s to defuse a dynamite or stop a doc carrier, while your opponent might have a bit more luck the round after.

think of it like spread, which is also random. how do you feel when you're denied a kill because of random spread, and the enemy's random spread got lucky and headshotted you at a distance...

there is always a random element to the game, else everyone would have 0 spread railguns, arty and airstrikes would always strike in exact positions with exact timing, etc.

@daemord

doesnt matter if the leagues implement bans on heron, heron is fully automatic and doesnt need user input, like scripted spawn timers. this is why heron has the cvar to limit the use of it via punkbuster. i guess this is why its a cvar in et pro to as not everyone will want the spawntimer on the screen anyway and not all leagues will want it to be a level playing field. but thats the beauty of adding the cvar, it gives leagues options

o and i thought heron wasnt limited in the latest cfg :S

Well...

Considering that most clans use spawn timer scripts, I don't see anything wrong with the new spawn timing system that is being created for the new etpro...

I would like to know wether the prone hitboxes would be fixed also?

>>steven! wrote:@daemord

doesnt matter if the leagues implement bans on heron, heron is fully automatic and doesnt need user input, like scripted spawn timers. this is why heron has the cvar to limit the use of it via punkbuster. i guess this is why its a cvar in et pro to as not everyone will want the spawntimer on the screen anyway and not all leagues will want it to be a level playing field. but thats the beauty of adding the cvar, it gives leagues options

o and i thought heron wasnt limited in the latest cfg :S

I have trialled heron briefly (best way to counter something is to try it) and fyi it does require user input, just like all spawn timers do, its limited because the makers saw heron as contreversial (sp?) as proven by this thread tbh, as for being limited by cfg, heron has NEVER been limited by any CB or other config to date that i know of, BUT it has been expressely forbidden by the majority of rules "no external programs allowed ie spawn timers, aim bots, and wall hacks, voice communication tools like teamspeak are" sound a little familiar to you, a very similar line, excluding the use of spawn timers is on nearly every official competition and league website, so please learn to read before you post.

wot user input in game does it require other than to change the map and stop start?.

it does not need digits tapping in to when the enemy spawns

and u can say what u like about the rules, how will ppl know sum1 is using heron unless it is restricted in the cfg, then we know no1 is using it.

>>steven! wrote:wot user input in game does it require other than to change the map and stop start?.
.

Spawn times have a random offset from game start. This was introduced in RTCW OSP. Thus, you still need to see one spawn.

>>steven! wrote: and u can say what u like about the rules, how will ppl know sum1 is using heron unless it is restricted in the cfg, then we know no1 is using it.

ahh cool, so as long as we dont KNOW some1 is using it, its fine to use it, so as long as nobody KNOWS im using an aimbot and wallhack, you have no complaints with me using one??