Battery changes for tournament stopwatch

Post by **bani** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 4:30 pm

Vote on proposed changes to battery for tournament stopwatch.

As it is, battery is far too defense biased for decent tournament stopwatch games.

<blink>DO NOT VOTE UNLESS YOU PLAY TOURNAMENT STOPWATCH!!</blink>

RedNeck · Post by **RedNeck** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:54 pm

plz vote no. this affects TWL too much witch Zer0 is in. it will kill it for a lot of ppl.

Samurai · Post by **Samurai** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:40 pm

no way that is gay cause the covert op is useless on that lvl and is too easy for offensive strikes w/no challenge for allies

{Zer0}Eclipse · Post by **{Zer0}Eclipse** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:46 pm

Nope, no, nada, zilch changes.

It would be too easy for allies once again.

Having the whole entire team spawn at the command post, blowing up the gate and rushing down to plant. Weak. It would make TWL and CAL league matches impossible for the Axis to defend.

I thought the whole reason for this ET was to be more realistic..ie, k43/garand and such. If the DDAY attack would have been this easy, damn, the war would have been over within three weeks.

spoon · Post by **spoon** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:49 pm

RedNeck wrote:plz vote no. this affects TWL too much witch Zer0 is in. it will kill it for a lot of ppl.

Go challenge arise to a scrim on battery and see if you think the same way afterwards.

The fact of the matter is that the Allies have one (and only one) way into the bunker as things stand now. Everyone knows that you stack 4 FO's up on the ridge, plant a mortar back in a safe spot with the coords for the ramp, and keep a decent panzer on the prowl and just continuously hammer the build box.

Making the backdoor dynamitable at least forces Axis to pay attention to it, which is going to cut down on the spam tremendously.

The only thing I'm not sure about is whether to keep the CP as a spawn point... I'd like to see how that plays out in a few matches first, but for the time being (and assuming the emphasis is on assisting the offense) I'd say keep it enabled. If there's a bunch of 2 minute caps, then we should think about axing it.

DeathMaker · Post by **DeathMaker** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 9:59 pm

Apparently Zero doesn't compete against the likes of Arise, SMF, Rotators, Clan Casualty. You'll find that both of these maps are just plain unbeatable against that type of competition. Save your flames boys, I've seen ya play

DM

gotenks · Post by **gotenks** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:06 pm

if the command post spawn is removed it won't be that bad, but it would be much harder for axis to win. Allies Engineer, CO, and Med team would beable to rape the axis. Are these the only alternatives? it is definatly hard to win as allies (though not impossible) but a dynoable door would give way too much power to allies

{Zer0}Eclipse · Post by **{Zer0}Eclipse** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:41 pm

Hmm Deathmaker. Never heard of you. Anyways, that is not the point to my argument.

Having the allies being able to spawn at the back at the command post, being able to blow up the door and sneek in, is just like having the generator box OUTSIDE. Being destroyed very easily, just with an extra thirty seconds. So when the axis engineer goes out to defuse, uh oh! The whole allied team is out at the door ready to run in via door and blow the gun. It is just too much to worry about having a defense in a six or seven player team on a fast-paced StopWatch match.

Deathmaker: So you have four top notch clans in TWL. What about the other hundered clans that participate in the league?

Spoon: Having four Field Ops is fucking pointless, the air support goes down rapidly. There is a limit to how many you can call in TWL. So that goes right out the window

RedNeck · Post by **RedNeck** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:03 am

spoon wrote:
RedNeck wrote:plz vote no. this affects TWL too much witch Zer0 is in. it will kill it for a lot of ppl.
Go challenge arise to a scrim on battery and see if you think the same way afterwards.

The fact of the matter is that the Allies have one (and only one) way into the bunker as things stand now. Everyone knows that you stack 4 FO's up on the ridge, plant a mortar back in a safe spot with the coords for the ramp, and keep a decent panzer on the prowl and just continuously hammer the build box.

Making the backdoor dynamitable at least forces Axis to pay attention to it, which is going to cut down on the spam tremendously.

The only thing I'm not sure about is whether to keep the CP as a spawn point... I'd like to see how that plays out in a few matches first, but for the time being (and assuming the emphasis is on assisting the offense) I'd say keep it enabled. If there's a bunch of 2 minute caps, then we should think about axing it.

omg you are the best clan ever, you made it into playoffs everything. can i get you anything. huh what you lost in the very begining, but your WAY better than us. We joined leauge late in the sesson. maybe if we had a couple more match we would of taken your spot

. i didnt start flaming anyone or anything, it was an opinion nothing more nothing less. dont bag on Zer0 because your 10 year-old brother thought up a witty remark. iv posted more about my opinion on the twl fourms.

duke'ku · Post by **duke'ku** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:10 am

RedNeck wrote:omg you are the best clan ever, you made it into playoffs everything. can i get you anything. huh what you lost in the very begining, but your WAY better than us. We joined leauge late in the sesson. maybe if we had a couple more match we would of taken your spot . i didnt start flaming anyone or anything, it was an opinion nothing more nothing less. dont bag on Zer0 because your 10 year-old brother thought up a witty remark. iv posted more about my opinion on the twl fourms.

way to make your opinion count. being a flaming dickhole really raises credibility.

Post by **bani** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:20 am

please dont vote unless you play in league competition.

Post by **bani** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:28 am

{Zer0}Eclipse wrote:Nope, no, nada, zilch changes.

It would be too easy for allies once again.

Having the whole entire team spawn at the command post, blowing up the gate and rushing down to plant. Weak. It would make TWL and CAL league matches impossible for the Axis to defend.

I thought the whole reason for this ET was to be more realistic..ie, k43/garand and such. If the DDAY attack would have been this easy, damn, the war would have been over within three weeks.

battery is too biased to defense as it is, battery is the cause of many full holds. unfortunately its biased so badly that a so-so team can full hold against a much better team, and that isn't right.

the whole point of stopwatch is to set times and have the other team try to beat it. as it is, battery is broken for that.

Post by **bani** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:44 am

vote reset.

DO NOT VOTE UNLESS YOU PLAY STOPWATCH COMPETITIVELY IN A LEAGUE.

THIS VOTE IS NOT FOR PUBS

CorpseGrinder · Post by **CorpseGrinder** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:52 am

I agree with the "Back door dynamitable/rebuildable, no spawn at command post." Time to kick it up a notch or two boys. It's not so much about defend until the end as it is who can do it faster.

If they blow the back door they make themselves MG and panzer fodder. They spawn back on the beach while an Eng. rebuilds. I like it.

When decent clans face each other on Battery the back door isn't really an option because you stay away from areas that will get you blown on to the beach for some suspecting CO to strip your Ralph Laurens off. As Axis you combine spam, spam, spam, and a panzer to wash the spam down with, well....there you have it...Allied soup. I say let them blow the back door but let them spawn in the rubber raft.

ginc · Post by **ginc** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:57 am

Ok, I've played this map several times against good teams. As is, it IS defensive, but one mistake or lucky push is all it takes to win. It's kind of a lottery map right now.

Unfortunately, the change youre proposing, a dynamitable back door, will make things too easy for the offense. The back door and the west bunker are simply too far apart to make defending both areas feasible, so you'll end up with a goalie defense (all the axis in the gun control room). Even without the CP spawn, a 7 man push towards the back door would be impossible to stop if the defense is split.

Honestly, I don't think this map can be fixed without changing the .bsp. Here's what I would do:
- Make the assault ramp permanently built.
- Make a front door that needs to be blown with dynamite, when its breached, allies get west bunker permanently.
- Add one extra corridor near the interior MG nest so that T-junction isn't the only chokepoint the allies can go through. It is an absolute deathtrap if the axis are setup properly right now.
- Leave the back door as is.